[VERONICA]:
Empowered and Unapologetic is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a family of podcasts that changed the world. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom podcast, Beta Male Revolution, or Imperfect Thriving, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Have you ever thought, how did I manage to lose myself? Being a mom is so hard, especially when we’re feeling stressed and disconnected. We exhaust ourselves trying to create this perfect life for our family. You deserve to enjoy your marriage and your kids, without the stress perfectionism brings. I am going to teach you how to identify who you are, outside of all of the roles you play.

Hi, I’m Veronica Cisneros. I’m a wife, mother of three, and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. I am on a mission to teach women just like you how to become empowered and unapologetic. Welcome to our girl gang.

[VERONICA]:
Hey, ladies. Welcome to Empowered and Unapologetic. I’m your host, Veronica Cisneros. Today’s guest is a licensed professional counselor. She has provided services to youth and adults in outpatient, school, in-home and community settings. She firmly believes that people don’t have to remain stuck in their pain, or at the place where they became wounded. She encourages her clients to become active in their treatment, and work towards their desired outcome. She is the owner of LCS Counseling and Consulting Agency located in Fort Worth, Texas. She has also launched a platform called Strong Witness. Her mission is to empower people to use the power of their voice to share their stories and connect with others. So please help me by welcoming LaToya Smith. Hey, girl.

[LATOYA]:
Hey, how are you?

[VERONICA]:
I’m doing good. How are you?

[LATOYA]:
I’m good. Good. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I’m really excited about it and excited about all the work you’re doing. So this is good.

[VERONICA]:
Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yeah, I’m so excited to have you on. So one thing I have to say right away is I am so inspired by your passion to help people reclaim their voice. I think that is absolutely amazing.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, thank you for saying that. You know what, I’m inspired too. I’m excited about it. And every time I hear somebody share, I get more energized and want to do it some more. Yeah. So I thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think this is one of the… for me, and just watching your work, I think this is one of the things that it’s just, it’s this level of passion that we have to go out and help others at a totally different level, and just being welcome to be a part of people’s lives and a part of their journey, and seeing them progress at their own pace. It’s such a significant blessing. So just kind of watching your work and watching what you do, it’s just, again, it’s admirable.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. So let’s just jump right in. My first question is, how do we lose our voice? Like, how do we do that? How does one lose their voice?

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, that’s a good question. And it’s funny, because I can hear some people say, well, I never had it to begin with, right.

[VERONICA]:
Oh, yes.

[LATOYA]:
But I think, losing it, there’s a couple ways. One is that somebody or people can take our voice from us. That can be somebody trying to tell our story for us, especially with women who have been abused in various ways. That is a thief of our voice, right, when we shut down. And another way to lose your voice is when we surrender it to somebody else or something else because, again, of this abuse or shift in power. So losing a voice is just really not opening up to share our story. And when you don’t use it, you lose it. Kinda like muscle, right?

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
I didn’t work out last week for various reasons and I went today, and I was like, man, everything hurts. And things that I was doing easily two weeks ago, today was like, I just wanted to… matter of fact, I did just lay on my mat for a little bit, like, I can’t. So when you don’t, you know, you always heard that, oh, use it or lose it, use it or lose it. That’s the same thing when I think of our voice. When you don’t speak up, when you don’t share, it’s like the volume is constantly turned down, turned down, then all of a sudden it’s left on silent. And when it’s left on silent, that creates the most inner turmoil, like pain, physically within our bodies, and then emotionally just shutting down. And I don’t like that space. I didn’t like it for me, and I don’t like when I hear or see somebody else in that space. And what I’ve noticed, too, sometimes people that are there don’t know they’re there, because that becomes their norm, the silent place is their norm. And now we know silence speaks volumes, right? So even you can… that’s why, I mean, you know too, you can look at some women and tell they’re in pain. And it’s like, Sister, you got to use your voice, you got to open up, you got to let something come out, you know, whatever little bit counts.

But I think when we look at the bigger picture, I think we’d all been shocked to see how we lost the power of our voice along the way. If we had to do a timeline to date from birth to now, like, going back over our life, the times where our voice was taken from us, or the times we surrendered it over to whoever we thought or believed was in control of power or shifted it and was telling our own stories. And it’s, man, it’s not… I don’t wanna say it’s defeating, but it’s like, man, that’s, that’s not good. You know what I mean, I want my voice back, and I want to be able to share my story, my way, how I want to do it. Yeah.

[VERONICA]:
It goes back to kind of this suffering silently, and you mentioned it becomes our norm. And it’s kind of something that I run into with some of the women in the Facebook group. Women want to go ahead and change, and do all of these things, and they run into this big speed bump for themselves in even owning their truth. And most of the time owning their truth means that they’ve been silent. And at any time, you do have that power to go ahead and speak up, you do have that power to create change. It’s just because you’ve known this for so long, you don’t know any other way. And any other way scares the crap out of you. I love that you used ‘thief of your voice’. I love that. You also brought up ‘for you’, you know, when you were feeling this way. Can you please share with us your story for those that don’t know you?

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, I started Strong Witness because, well, I realized that I’m stronger when I use my voice, and I’m a witness, in other words, to my experience in life of what happened. So I’m gonna use my voice for my specific experience, Strong Witness. And so I started Strong Witness because I realized the power of my voice and how free I felt, how empowered I felt when I started sharing my story. So quick snippet of my story: when I was in the seventh grade, it was fall, October – I don’t know the exact date, little details now I wish I would have known, like that – but October, the fall of when I was in the seventh grade, I was molested by my, at that time, brother in law. And, man, it just… I don’t think anything can prepare you for that moment. I don’t care how old you are. And so it really messed me up, it shook me up. And I remember, even that night, you know, I told my mom a little bit, but I didn’t tell her the full story. And it’s like, I shut down. And I only cried one time about the event, like, tears and that was that night. But since then, no.

Now, so I said a little bit and I shut down and then this shame and fear, like, overtook me completely, to the point where I knew about it in my mind, but then I didn’t know about it. It’s like I closed it completely off. And any direction, any conversation in that area was so sensitive, and so on guard, that’s not something I was willing to talk about. So at that moment, yeah, being in the seventh grade, preteen years for me, or tween, I don’t know. But it was like, my voice at that level was taken away. I remember going to school on that Monday, after that weekend, going to my locker, you know, you turn the locker thing around, the dial to put the code in, and I remember thinking to myself, nobody here knows what happened. And it was kind like, that’s it. And it was like, it was like, if it was a movie, it’d be fade to black like, you know what I mean, and that would be it. It’s like the curtain dropped on that. And I didn’t start really thinking about it… I never forgot, but it wasn’t heavy on me again, until spring when I was a senior, like, right when I was about on to college.

[VERONICA]:
Why do you think that is?

[LATOYA]:
I don’t know. I mean, I think that has a lot to do with the subconscious, a lot of shutting it out, a lot of it being too traumatic to deal with, so I had to tuck it away. And then not having the support that I needed to help me share my voice. You know what I mean? So the support got silent too. And so if my strong support got silent, then I’m gonna follow suit. I mean, I’m thinking that this is it. And being a therapist too – and I’m sure you know this – countless times people come into my office, and maybe their child was abused and their response is, well, that happened to me and my mom, you know, we got through it, you know what I mean? Like, no, this is not some generational stuff we passing down. This is not an heirloom or some money; this should not be legacy. So if I didn’t have that… and I’m not dumping on that person, I mean, it is what it is.

[VERONICA]:
No, no, no.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah. And I didn’t have that so it was kind of like, hey, let’s keep it moving. And another thing too, another thing, I think, that hurts women is a superwoman complex, where we’ve been taught by observing the strong women in our families and how they got through it. I mean, just, hey, you need to work, be quiet, don’t say nothing, don’t complain, show up, you got it together, keep it moving, and keep flowing. And then what we pick up on, again, we know young people now are so observant and they absorb, hey, keep it moving. I go to school, I play sports, I do what I got to do, I laugh with my friends. And inside, nobody knew that that piece of me was just silent.

Now it came out in other areas, when it came to, for myself… I think I told my friend once and she was like, I didn’t know you had low self-esteem. I guess, you know for yourself what’s going on, right? Not feeling that way, low self-esteem, or always feeling like you got this movie reel in the back of your mind that nobody else knows is constantly playing, and it could be so draining. And it’s so frustrating to have that silence going and that movie reel constantly flowing. And it’s a lot. It creates a lot of inner turmoil, man, like, you can’t shake that stuff. But so I didn’t have the words to put to it. I wasn’t able to express it. And I just felt like, man, my voice just wasn’t there. And I didn’t know it could be awakened. Nobody was there to teach me and I always say this, like, when we were younger, we saw the signs about, you know, don’t do drugs, or go to college. But I never saw the signs that said, this is what sexual abuse is. This is what molestation is. This is what you do if somebody touches you inappropriately. Like, maybe now in the schools. I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s a liability, but back then…

[VERONICA]:
Oh, my God. You’re so right.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah. Back then, certainly not.

[VERONICA]:
Oh, my God. Yes. I’m sorry. Go… no, I love that you touched on that.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah. But that’s it. So that’s why a lot of, you know, when I say I lost my voice it was that happened. Like I said, it was like seeing fade to black. And then there was nobody there to help me. And I remember being young and thinking, man, I would love to scream this from the mountaintops. In hindsight, if I would have had a little help, if I would have had somebody to push me to say no, you speak up, no, you do this, man. It would have been way different. Yeah.

[VERONICA]:
It’s interesting. I love that you mentioned how moms will come in and share their experience with what might have happened to their daughter, or even their son, and what their take was on it and how they were able to cope through it. And helping them recognize some unhealthy patterns. I love that you said, this should not be a legacy, this should not be a legacy, something that we pass down, tag, you’re it, by any means. However, there’s so many people that don’t know what to do next. And it’s because of that lack of education. You’re right, there’s… I remember when I was a kid, dare to say no to drugs, I remember promoting, I was a dare kid, like, all day, I was a dare kid. Nope, I’m not going to do drugs, because I’m a dare kid, like, I would represent, you know, and being able to go out and have maybe a billboard or something, some level of education. I don’t think there’s any education out there, unless you’re in therapy, unless something’s already happened. And that makes me sad because had you have been given that next step, had you been given that level of support, there’s so many things that would change. I mean, mind, I’m so grateful and thankful that you’re able to share this story now, you know, to help others. And at the same time, you know, in what ways, for those that have been impacted by a traumatic event, how do you help those see clearly? So what is that next step?

[LATOYA]:
Yes, good question, too. I think it is different from therapy than it is with Strong Witness. So, therapy [unclear] can be completely different. I tell people too, Strong Witness shouldn’t be substituted for therapy. If they hear something that’s triggering, and is too much, or you’re not ready to share yet, don’t. You see what I’m saying? As simple as that.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. Straight up.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, and let me help you find therapy, whether it be in my office, or someplace else, a referral out. So I think when I hear people who have traumatic stories, and they’re ready to share, oftentimes… that is the point of Strong Witness. It’s a storytelling platform that empowers people to speak up, and share, and connect with other people. So with that being said, if there’s somebody that’s kind of on the fence, maybe they’ve gone to therapy, maybe they worked through it, they’re like, I don’t know if I want to share, they’re going to be more inclined to share when they hear me talking. Because that’s a big part of it, like, so many times – I don’t care if I’m talking about this issue, of molestation, or something else – we’ve all been there. Either we’ve been the one talking to somebody else, like, hey, you know what? Same thing happened to me. Or somebody else was talking and we’re the one to be like, yo, you’re not gonna believe this, but… you know, how we can connect with each other’s stories.

So a lot of times, it’s the idea of being in that environment, what helps somebody who’s been traumatized and doesn’t know how sharing is actually connecting with a community that is similar to yours and starting to hear people’s talk. That’s why nobody’s story should be neglected or downplayed because it’s important to them and you’re helping somebody else by sharing it. And I really want to get that through to everybody, like, there’s no small story, there’s no little thing, because that’s all connection. So a lot of times helping somebody who’s been traumatized is getting around that community and realizing, like… listen, even when it comes to Strong Witness, and what I’ve been doing lately is having a story series every month. And somebody could connect with that stuff. You may not… you either gonna get inspired, you’re gonna find this connection, and then you’re gonna turn around and tell somebody else what your story is.

So even the people, the women that are listening to this podcast, like, if somebody is yet to tell their story of abuse, I’m hoping this can ignite that, where it’s almost like a rumbling within that you can’t keep quiet anymore. I’m wanting those things to begin to come out, in whatever healthy way that is, you know, we can talk about that a little bit later too, it doesn’t mean that you… and I joke with people, right? It doesn’t mean you get on the megaphone… megaphone, or the intercom at work and tell the world; it means that you start talking, even if it’s working through the facts with yourself first, before pouring out to others.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. Being able to go ahead and hear someone share their story and being a part of that experience, most of the time, we don’t know what to do, we don’t know what to say. Even going back to that mom that’s in that counseling office, you know, sharing what had taken place with her daughter, that traumatic event. Most of the time, we don’t know what to do, and we feel paralyzed because there’s a part of us that wants to go ahead and connect. And then we also want to help, and fix. And I think that’s when feeling paralyzed comes into place because that’s something you can’t fix, you can’t fix for somebody else. However, in my opinion, and with working with women who have encountered this trauma, you know, rape, molestation, abuse, I’ve found that the best thing to do is listen.

[LATOYA]:
Right.

[VERONICA]:
Listen to understand, and you don’t have to fix. You don’t. Obviously, I’m a clinician and so, I will teach healthy coping skills, we will go through things in a professional setting, in a therapeutic setting. However, as a friend, or as a colleague, or whatever capacity, being able to go ahead and listen and even validate because this is their truth, I don’t have to change it, I don’t have to fix it. Me being there is enough. And for that parent that experienced this and went to therapy, that is admirable because they recognize something’s wrong, they recognize something’s not healthy. And being able to go ahead and do something different creates and establishes this platform for change to be created, and help to be not only sought after, but actually be implemented into the system, the dysfunctional system. So with that, how do we go ahead and have this type of conversation? What does that type of conversation look like? So when we’re sharing with a friend, or when we’re the friend listening, what does that conversation look like? What are some key tips for both sides?

[LATOYA]:
Right. I think for the person… you know what, let’s start with the listener first.

[VERONICA]:
Okay.

[LATOYA]:
Like you said, I don’t think you… matter of fact, I want anybody who’s listening to somebody open up to them, whether it be the first time they tell them the story, or the two hundredth time, is just listen. You don’t need to have, try to think you have to have the right answer. Because oh, you know, sometimes we’ve all been there too, right? Man, let me, I’m gonna say something real powerful right now. Sometimes it’s just being present. And like, man, eye contact, showing, body language, that you’re listening, and that you care, and that you recognize this story is heavy for somebody else. I mean, that speaks volumes.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
And then they’ll say too, especially for young people, even adults, like, when somebody shares your story with you, the response you give is going to affect how, if, and when they share with anybody else.

[VERONICA]:
Yes.

[LATOYA]:
So if I open up and share my story and your initial response is, you know, get out of here. That didn’t happen.

[VERONICA]:
Mm hmm. That didn’t happen.

[LATOYA]:
I’m wondering, that person said that. Yeah, they’re gonna shut down. That is a thief of somebody’s voice. And that’s going to be it. But whether it be like, you know what, I’m here, I’m listening, just spill, say whatever you got to say, that’s so comforting and makes you want to talk more. So that listener plays a big role. You don’t have to have a specific… you don’t have to have the right answers. You don’t have to say anything. Matter of fact, I like it when people just ask, what do you need from me right now? You need me to be a listener? Then I’m here. Just pour out. I’m right here. That’s the best stuff. It’s always painful. Like, don’t question them, why didn’t you do this? Why didn’t you go here? No. Everybody has the answer in hindsight. Everybody knows what they would have did, should have did. But when you’re in that moment of being traumatized, of being molested, raped, violated, sometimes you can’t think clearly.

Think about when… we’ve all been driving and you just miss a car accident, or you just slam your brakes and you miss something. In that moment, it’s just panic and fright. Not everybody reacts like the movies, and you spin your car around and can drive away. It’s not like that. And so you can think of the trauma like coming on you. It’s the same way. So to question somebody in hindsight what they should have, could have, would have, that’s not fair. And I cheat somebody else outta that experience. And it’s belittling, you know? So yeah, the listener plays a huge role. And then ask if it’s okay to ask questions. Sometimes it’s just not. Sometimes that person needs to pour out and I’m not emotionally available, or able to sit there and answer a ton of questions.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
I always think too, I think a follow up is important. You know, like, well, how you been doing? What’s going on? I know, we talked about that the other day, anything you need from me? I think that’s so special, in my experience, because that means that you really did hear me, and you really do care about what I’m saying. And one of my friends – I think I was telling her about Strong Witness, just let her know what it is, like, listen, share your story. And out of nowhere, one day, she was like, can I give you a hug? And I was like, yeah. But it was, like, okay, but I knew what she meant, because we had just shared the story. But it was her way of letting me know that was so special, and I connected with you, that she just wanted to give a hug. Let me know too, like, I connected to your story, and it’s warm, and it’s friendly, and all that stuff. As for the one speaking, I would always encourage to share with the right people. There’s nothing worse than sharing with somebody who’s just busy, and wants to know your business. As opposed to people that really care. So get to share in a safe space.

[VERONICA]:
How do you know?

[LATOYA]:
I think you know by… that’s a good question. I think as I get older, you know by… how do I say this the right way? It’s said too, especially in the therapy, you know… when you’ve been emotionally abused, you can recognize manipulation coming any type of way. Sexually abused, emotionally abused, like, you can see it coming. You know it for exactly what it is. And so at the same time, once you begin to heal, begin to walk down a different road, you can also recognize more – me personally, I don’t know if this is everybody – recognize more who’s genuine, as opposed who’s really not for you. You can discern things a little bit differently. So I know it’s safe for me to share when I watch a lot, and I observe the character of somebody else. One, okay, this is somebody that is safe for me, that I know that if I put this out there, like, we can connect, it won’t be any judgment, it’ll be good communication, it’s safe. Not that… I mean, I share my story anyway. So it’s not like this big secret anymore.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
But I also think you want to share in a place that’s also safe, in a sense that can I help this person I’m talking to? So sometimes it’s about sharing where is this helping you? Is this helping you get free? This helping you know that you’re not alone? So, when you’re in that safe space, and you can open up and share how you feel. You don’t have to tell people. And you’re the judge. You’re the one who says how much you’re going to share anyway. So it doesn’t mean that when I share, everybody needs to know the most intricate details of what happened. No, that’s not true. If you’re in that space, if that’s what you want to do, it’s up to you. That’s what you share. If it’s just the idea, like, listen, when I was in seventh grade, I was molested, boom. Then that’s what you want to share. You’re the one who says how much you share on that day. Don’t let anybody else tell you well, that’s not enough. Tell me more. Well, when did that…? That goes back to, like, you don’t have to answer those questions. I’m not being interrogated. This is what I’m giving you. So you want to be safe.

Before you share too, you want to be able to own your story. If you haven’t fully accepted something’s happened, like, you got to be able to own that stuff for yourself. That’s how you really, really get free. You got to be able to say, listen, this is called molestation, this was called rape. This was not right. This happened to me. This is not something I’m making up. This is not something I’m gonna continue to shut down and close up on. And then personally too, you got to be able to face all those facts for yourself. I mean, like, details. And that’s something that I had to go through, like, details. Okay, this is what happened, this was the night, this is how it looked, this is what went on. Again, because that helps me to heal, when I can confront everything, not just a piece of it, or not the part that I wanted to, you know, the happy part that I wanted to replay.

[VERONICA]:
Hey, ladies, Are you loving this episode? Because if you are, share it with your friends, and then come join me in my private Facebook group, Empowered and Unapologetic. On this page, I want you to share what your favorite episode was, what lessons have you learned, and what was your greatest takeaway? This community is filled with women just like you.

[VERONICA]:
Going back to what you said, being able to go ahead and know where you’re currently at. And you know the difference between feeling comfortable and uncomfortable. And I think for a good amount of people too, is the minute they’re asked a question, they felt compelled to want to answer it, because this person’s listening to me share my story, so I owe it to them. Maybe I’m traumatizing them in some way, or maybe I’m making them feel uncomfortable in some way. I appreciate that you said, being able to go ahead and know the facts and being comfortable in those facts, being comfortable in sharing your story, being comfortable in being next to this other person. And you’re right, if you’re feeling as if this person might not be safe, and they might not be safe because anytime I do share small stories, they do tend to catastrophize, or blow things out of proportion, or in the end of a conversation I feel so uncomfortable, and so ashamed, and so exposed, that I don’t know what to do with myself.

And so really recognizing, what is my intent for having this conversation? What is my intent? And if it’s to go ahead and find comfort from them, well, I need to find comfort from within first, before I can go ahead and get it from anybody else. And this, this might be something you work on. And so you might be down to maybe one person and that one person might be the only person you talk to until you develop and exercise this muscle to go ahead and say it even louder. And I love that you said it’s important to give details. When you said that, I thought to myself… first I thought, okay, well, why the hell am I gonna want to give all these details to this person? And then there was this other part, this other component, which is so empowering about being able to give these details. And again, if I’m going to share my story, I’m going to share it because this is where I’m at today. And by sharing my story, I get to develop a stronger sense of confidence, a stronger sense of self worth. And this level goes up every single time I empower myself. And so can you speak more to that, of the importance of giving details?

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, I think the details are important first, to yourself. And I’ll share some of my story with that too, my healing. Now, for me, over the years I’ve been at different levels with this. But, man, one of the biggest breakthroughs that I got was when I sat down and I wrote a story to the person that molested me, a story. I wrote a letter to him. In that, I was told, I was given instructions, make this so detailed that… first of all, I know he never forgot, so I’m not gonna believe that lie. But the idea that, listen, I’m gonna paint this picture so vivid in your mind that there’s no way you could let this go. Right?

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
So for me too, that helped me to heal. From the light that was on over the oven, the couch, the car I saw you in not too long after, like, everything. But it also helped me because I confronted everything for myself, as opposed to being like, well, I’m just going to deal with this one little portion and everything else outside of that’s the biggest trigger and I can’t touch it. It’s so sensitive, because I haven’t dealt with it. And so I needed to confront everything in it so that way I can heal from everything in it. And also with that, that’s also helped with my voice of sharing my story. Now I can share it all, you’re not getting a snippet anymore. You’re not getting just this segment. You’re not getting the part… Cuz a big part of the story too is not just the incident but everything after. Like, that’s… let me share it all.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. You’re still running into this person. Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
Exactly. So just being able to confront everything to me was healing, and realize that I’m no longer going to cheat myself in this. Everything has to come up, everything’s got to be healed. And now I can move forward. So that was [unclear] me. Yeah. Cuz I wanted to be whole. Think about it, if you don’t confront all the details, it’s like you’re not ever fully whole, you just dealt with a little bit.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. Bingo. Yes. And there’s that… then there will be… and it kind of goes with, you know, we distract, we avoid, we do all of the things to get rid of this uncomfortable emotion. However, if you can get comfortable with the uncomfortable, that creates power.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah.

[VERONICA]:
And not only that, in addition to that power, you are now released from being imprisoned from your past. And I see this often. Most of the time we become completely defeated by our past because we refuse to accept that it even happened.

[LATOYA]:
Yeah. That’s a good point.

[VERONICA]:
Right. And being able to go ahead and… it kind of goes back to some DBT, radical acceptance, being able to go ahead and accept, learn from, and move forward. Being able to do all three of those things. And when you’re able to do all three of those things, you’re able to live this life, free from that bondage. And those details, however big or small they are, in some ways they trap us. And when we come to terms with them, when we face them, well, then that’s when we’re set free. What steps… because I understand that this does require vulnerability. What steps do we need to take to become vulnerable in sharing our story? And how do we do that? Because this is already a sensitive topic already. And we’re already feeling exposed by just admitting and owning that this happened to us. So how does that play into the picture? How is this safe?

[LATOYA]:
I think one of the first steps needs to be reframing our thinking around this. Because if I’m realizing that like… like I said, I recognize shame and fear come over me even during the time of being molested. I remember in my mind, I remember locking in and being like, I’m so embarrassed. I mean, like, at that moment, as a child. And so with that, it’s the idea of beginning to reframe where we’re at with it. How I see it. Listen, who wouldn’t be? One. But two… what’s Brene Brown say, where shame is vulnerability camping?

[VERONICA]:
Yep.

[LATOYA]:
So listen, like, there’s nothing that was wrong with me. This happened to me. I mean, like, I’m not less than, I’m not dirty, this act is dirty. But it’s not me. It didn’t define me. And really getting to that point of saying, like, no, this is not, this doesn’t make me. This doesn’t define me, like, I want to get free from this, I gotta share this. So I think the weight of carrying it, when that became too heavy, like, mentally and emotionally for me, I couldn’t take it, like, no, I gotta break free from this. And that’s what helped me become vulnerable with the people I saw around me that I knew that I could trust. Where it felt safe, where they were the same person, where they did show up, where they were in my life, they were already a strong support. And I do believe that God places people in our lives that are just there. And they have their strengths in whatever areas they have them in, and being able to turn and pour back into those people and be vulnerable and realize, say, listen, I don’t know what to make of this. This is too heavy for me to carry, I need you to help me.

And as soon as I started to do that, it got lighter. Now, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t still heavy, it just wasn’t as heavy as it was. So that was me being vulnerable even when I started out with this. Now me being vulnerable, honestly, is even having this discussion. Now this is in no way as heavy as it was as a seventh grade little girl, no way as heavy as it was when I was twenty-one. But being present, and being here, and being like, hey… and even as we’re talking, you know, what’s crazy is like, I’m thinking that there’s words that I’ll say now, talking to you and I’m like, man, I would have never said this when I was in seventh grade. I would have been too scared to say the word ‘molested’. I would have been too scared to say, this is what happened and here’s the person that did it. I would have been horrified. But now that I can be here, just be vulnerable, be present. Like, listen. this is me. It doesn’t define me but I know when I share my story, it helps somebody else.

[VERONICA]:
Yes. Yes.

[LATOYA]:
So I think the first steps of being that, of being vulnerable, is reframing the thinking, like, it doesn’t mean that you’re exposed to the world. I think that’s a big part too, the whole secret. Everybody’s gonna know. What’s everybody gonna think?

[VERONICA]:
Yes. Yes.

[LATOYA]:
No, that’s not true. It’s not like everybody’s gonna be staring at you and the world’s gonna stop, and we’re going to stare at you walk down the street. What’s that person gonna think of me? Like, no, they’re gonna think that you’re still this beautiful, powerful woman. This is a circumstance. This is not you. This is an experience. This doesn’t define you. And a lot of times people know that moment that you are stronger because of what you overcame, and the power to say what you’ve experienced, man, I love it. I love hearing somebody be vulnerable and share their story. Even if I can’t relate, I’m like, man, that person is so strong. I can’t believe that they had the power to say, X, Y, Z even when it’s not molestation or rape, maybe it’s something else. I’m like, wow, the strength it took for you to open your mouth and share and say what you had to say, I love you even more for that. I’m boosted even more for that. And to me, that’s what strong is.

[VERONICA]:
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. I just want to comment on that. LaToya, I remember when you shared with me, we were at [unclear]. For those of you that don’t know, me and LaToya know each other. We’re friends. And we were at this business conference and I remember we were at a bonfire, cooking s’mores. And I remember just sitting, kicking back, you know, talking, and you and I were discussing our past, and just just going for it, getting to know each other and connecting. And I remember when you shared your story with me, it was as if… I don’t know, I can remember. I don’t exactly remember what we were wearing but I can remember almost all of the details. And I say that, I’m highlighting this, because it was so important for me to go ahead and be there with you, not for you. Because girl, you didn’t even need me, you were good. But it was so important for me to be there with you because it was like, we’re connecting right now. And it was such a powerful and beautiful conversation. And just hearing your story and hearing this – I have to say it – hearing this bad ass being able to go ahead and take that event and create something so significant, and beautiful, and amazing, and helping other people. And it’s just, you’re right, you’re a hundred percent right, that this provides you with the opportunity to create change, not only for yourself, change with other people. And so I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I just wanted to highlight that you’re a hundred percent right. People do view you in this certain manner and hold a great amount of respect for you. Because you’re no longer asking people for permission to be you. You’re granting yourself permission.

[LATOYA]:
Right. That’s good.

[VERONICA]:
And being able to watch that, right? Being able to witness that. It’s a beautiful thing. I’m sorry.

[LATOYA]:
No, no, but everything you said was just amazing. I like that. Like, you’re not asking for permission. A lot of times when our voice is stolen, it’s like we got to ask… kind of like we’re in an elementary school, gotta raise your hand to speak. And when your voice is stolen like that, you’re kinda, is this okay? What’s everybody gonna think? Should I say this? Okay, I said a little bit, I said too much. Now they’re really going to see me. I had to get over that too, like, okay, if I say something, oh, man, now I’m exposed. Everybody can see me. Now, I’m like, boom, I said it. I hope you saw me. I wanted you to see me. And let that stay on your mind, what I just said. So with maturity in it, and the more you walk in it, that vulnerability piece, it just gets easier and it gets more comfortable, to the point where you’d rather be there than to be anywhere near where that shame was. It’s like it’s all the way to the other end of the spectrum. And that’s a beautiful space to sit in. The present, being you, using your voice without fear of judgment, without fear of any repercussions, without fear of who’s gonna say what, I love that space.

[VERONICA]:
Right. I want to also ask, okay, so on the other end, on the flip side, you know, because we talked about moms coming in, we’ve talked about people not knowing what to do when you share your story. There’s this other part, and I want to make sure we talk about it. What happens if people disagree, or they don’t even believe you? What happens in that moment? What would you say to that person that has attempted to share their story with their mom, with their aunt, with their best friend, and nobody believes them. What would you say? Because I’m thinking, you know, in that moment, and I’ve seen it happen, you know, with some of my clients. They just kind of balled up. And they didn’t have that… it was as if not only was there a thief, but now there was an accomplice with the thief.

[LATOYA]:
Oh, yeah.

[VERONICA]:
And they just took their voice and threw it away, right? So now there’s an accomplice, and there’s somebody else validating reasons why this person shouldn’t have a voice. And I’m not saying that that’s true but that’s the feeling that comes up. What would you say to them?

[LATOYA]:
I think that’s a really good point that you are saying. I like the word you used, like, you’re an accomplice because that’s really what it is. I think, again, the amount of strength that it takes to open up and share, and my heart hurts for the people that have shared, and somebody was right there, to say, I don’t believe you or get out of my face, or kept the secret going, well, don’t tell anybody.

[VERONICA]:
Yes.

[LATOYA]:
Right. And I’m grateful I didn’t have that experience. As an adult, I had somebody say something to me once that was just, it was very indirect, but very passive, but I picked up on it. And even then, being like, what? It’s not comfortable. But I will say, again, my heart hurts for that person, I’m hoping that they can still find the strength to share. And a lot of times too, the person that turns them down, those accomplices that we were just talking about, they can’t handle the facts.

[VERONICA]:
Yes.

[LATOYA]:
They get it. People aren’t stupid. People know somebody’s character before you come and tell them. But because they can’t handle the facts, or maybe this is legacy in their family, this stuff was passed down, it happened to them and they didn’t deal with it, and they don’t know how to handle the strength in your voice for you trying to deal with it. You know, a lot of times that says way more about them than it does about you. So I would encourage that woman that does open her mouth to share and doesn’t get a fair answer from somebody else, recognize that that’s that person’s heart speaking, but not to shut her down.

[VERONICA]:
No, it’s not a reflection.

[LATOYA]:
Right. And if that person didn’t hear you, man, I would even encourage them to go maybe find somebody else trusted. At that point, even a counselor, somebody you can talk to, to share it. And I never said this before, but I would even… like that’s why, man, I’m stressing that point now, like, if somebody just tried to turn you down, find somebody else as soon as possible who you can share with, somebody that you do trust because you don’t want that to be the lasting impression on you. Well, let me turn my voice all the way down because that person didn’t believe me. That person can’t deal with the story. And most times, that person has suffered some type of abuse or knows about it, and can’t handle the facts. And that’s not fair.

[VERONICA]:
Yes. This is very true. This is very true on so many levels. As clinicians, we do, we do see both sides. We see the person that reported it, and we see the person that didn’t say anything about it, even after it was reported to them. And we kind of… I don’t want to say we have the privilege. We have the inside scoop, I guess. I don’t know which other way to turn it right now. But we do have that inside information. And so, helping both people heal, and helping both people understand, and educate them, and provide them with this level of insight of what to do next. When you are sharing your story, it is so important. You found the courage to go ahead and say it out loud to one person, right away, in that moment – because you’re still riding on some of that courage – in that moment, share with somebody else, share with somebody else, because you will… I don’t want to give you a hundred percent guarantee, however, I also have experience with other people, you will have somebody that will hear you, you will have somebody that will help you. It’s kind of like when we’re a kid and we’re lost, what do you do first? You go to the store clerk, you go to the police officer, we have those steps. You get to call somebody, and they will provide you with some information.

[LATOYA]:
And let’s not underestimate or devalue… which I know we’re not, but I’m just saying. Cuz even as you’re talking, I’m thinking about it. Like, if I tell a trusted friend, or somebody, whoever that is, and they don’t believe me, even those hotlines in whatever area you’re in, whatever county you’re in, that deals specifically with this population of people, of women who have been violated or abused, even calling those numbers and just talking. Again, I don’t remember those hotlines being around when I was younger. I don’t even ever remember seeing a resource like that. But if somebody doesn’t believe me now, hindsight, if that was available, man, I would blow those numbers up. Just to say, listen, I don’t know what to do with this, and this is what I’m holding on to. Just get it out and not have the last impression being somebody like, nah, that’s not true. That’s not fair.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. Latoya, can you give us that number for the hotline?

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, it’s the number right here, the National Sexual Assault Telephone Hotline, 1-800-656-HOPE, but it’s 1-800-656-4673, it says is 24/7. So you can even call in there, there’s even an option for… I’m trying to look, if you look up rainn.org, there’s even an option for a live chat. So again, this doesn’t replace therapy but this does provide space where you can talk to somebody who’s readily available to listen, trained people to sit with you, to guide you through. And I’m pretty certain that they can give you some resources in your area.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. I wanted to ask another question. How are you able to heal if you can’t answer the question ‘why?’

[LATOYA]:
Yeah, that’s a good one too. You got some good questions.

[VERONICA]:
Thank you. I’ve done my research, girl. I do my research.

[LATOYA]:
I think, whether we know why or not – because I never got a ‘why’, right? So whether we know why or not, we still have to decide for ourselves that we want to heal. We may not know the why, we may not know what’s behind it. And at this point, there’s no why that’s going to make me feel better. You know what I mean?

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[LATOYA]:
I’m not gonna be like, oh, okay. There’s no why that he can give me to make me say, okay, well, that wasn’t that big of a deal. I don’t care what it was. So I have to realize for myself, listen, my mental health, my voice, my future, my life is more important to me. I had to decide to heal, despite whatever it is that he may be doing. And at the end of that letter I wrote to him, I don’t remember it word for word, but it was something along the lines of, listen, what you do with this is up to you. That’s between you and God. This was for me to write to you to let you know, this is where I’m at and I didn’t forget it. Now how you carry on [unclear] you walk, that’s up to you. And so I had to get completely free and break that with him, since this person never came back and told me why, I never got an apology. And I have to accept the fact that I may never get either one of those things, but I’m healed. I’m not the same person he met that night.

So I think women, or anybody who’s been violated, you may not ever get a why and at this point is any why good enough? And too, like, why do I… you know, it would be nice to hear from the person, well, tell me a little bit, like, what’s going on with you, like, why do you think that was okay? Like, I’m sure there’s other [unclear], but [unclear] but you got to decide that you still want your healing.

[VERONICA]:
I love that. I’m going to repeat that – you have to decide. It’s a decision only you can make. That’s how much power you have. You get to make the decision on whether you move forward, or you stay stuck and trapped in this, you get to decide that. And moving forward, it does take time. And it would be helpful with a professional, with a therapist. And at the same time, I love that you created Strong Witness. Because then, through Strong Witness, we’re able to share our stories, we’re able to be surrounded and supported and encouraged by a community of people who share something similar.

[LATOYA]:
Right.

[VERONICA]:
And we’re able to validate each other’s pain. We don’t have to go ahead and fix it. We’re able to sit in it with each other. And I absolutely love that. Can you…? One last question before I get to the question we ask everybody – can you please explain… because I hear women uncertain about the differences between rape and molestation. Can you give us the definitions in your terms – what they are?

[LATOYA]:
Sure. I think, again, in my own words, you know, rape I definitely consider it to be some type of penetration, for a woman, to a woman’s body. Whereas molestation is any inappropriate touch to the body. Right? So it’s not going to be rape, and I’m not minimizing either. They’re both…

[VERONICA]:
No, no, no, no, no.

[LATOYA]:
And that’s something too. I’m glad you asked this question because a lot of times people will be, you know, will say things, like, oh, well, it wasn’t rape. Like, nah, that’s not the answer. It’s still the inappropriate touch. Inappropriate, unwarranted, unsolicited touch by somebody else to my person, and why I feel violated. Whereas rape, it could be penetration with whatever, you know, body part…

[VERONICA]:
Object.

[LATOYA]:
Or object, right. So, I’m really glad that you asked that. Either one equally as bad. Equally as traumatic. You don’t put one over the other, even if, you know, obviously, people have been violated many, many times. It is still trauma if somebody was violated one time. And I think, also… I’m so happy you asked that. And that was a part of why I kept silent too, well, nah, well, it wasn’t this and it just happened once – I wonder if it’s that bad.

[VERONICA]:
Yes.

[LATOYA]:
It is this bad. And I know a friend of mine, you know, some people, one friend in particular who was violated, who was raped by somebody she knew. And it wasn’t as traumatic there. She doesn’t forget, but it’s kind of like, oh, that happened. Everybody deals with this stuff differently. She was raped by somebody she knew. I was molested, but it seems like if we tell our stories, again, not comparing, but man, mine took a hard toll on me. Where hers, you know, she handled it different, she processed it different. She just dealt with it differently. So everybody deals with their stuff different. Everybody’s story is different. But it’s equally traumatic regardless of, you know, it’s all sexual assault. It’s all a problem. It’s all serious. But it doesn’t make one better. Molestation is not less than just because it isn’t rape.

[VERONICA]:
Yes, absolutely. LaToya, wow, this was amazing. This was amazing. And I’m so thankful. I’m so thankful it was you. I’m so thankful it was you having this discussion with me. I’m so thankful it was you that, you know, we kind of processed through this. Because, for everybody listening, this was pretty heavy. You might need to take a time out from the day, take a nap, just really kind of gather your thoughts and allow yourself to process all the information that was given because LaToya gave a whole bunch of great educational information for everyone, for all of us. Latoya, I have to ask you a question I ask all of my guests. What are you doing right now, right this moment, to live the life you want to live?

[LATOYA]:
Yeah. Well, honestly, right this moment I’m doing a podcast. But I would say, that’s it. Like I said a while ago, when I was younger, I wanted to scream it from the mount… I didn’t know how. I didn’t know who to tell. I didn’t know what… and I remember thinking, man, if I could just speak this. And I’m doing exactly that right now. I’m talking to you. I know there’s going to be numerous women, man, I hope thousands of millions that hear this podcast and [unclear] listen, when I speak, I’m free. This is what I dreamed of. This is the stuff when I sat and it was racing through my mind, I couldn’t cut that film up. This is the moment that I’m, like, this is what I want. And so I’m doing that. And this is also helping me to do that, where I use my voice, and I’m just talking, and when people ask me, what’s Strong Witness? How to start, and I say this, like, this is it. This is me free. This is me being strong, and being a witness to my experience, but also reaching back and helping other people. So I love what I’m doing right now.

[VERONICA]:
I love it. Now, what advice would you give to the mom who is listening right now, feeling completely stressed, feeling completely disconnected? What would – one sentence – what would you tell her?

[LATOYA]:
Speak. You know, speak up and just talk. Find your community, this community right here. I don’t care if it’s… I don’t know how, maybe they get in touch with you one to one, through social media, post it on the blog, you know, sometimes you can say just a little bit and somebody is going to catch hold of it. The right person is going to be able to hear you. Like you said a minute ago, be with you in that moment. That’s it. The more you stay quiet, the more you keep it to yourself, the more it becomes your secret, the more you sink lower and lower, and your voice gets quiet. So speak up. Share more. Talk.

[VERONICA]:
Yes. How can we find you?

[LATOYA]:
Yep, I’m on social media. So Facebook, it is… I’m gonna give both my business and my Strong Witness.

[VERONICA]:
Yes, let’s do it.

[LATOYA]:
The Facebook is LCS Counseling and Consulting Agency. The Facebook for Strong Witness is just that, Strong Witness. I’m also on Instagram, @lcs_counseling. Again, Instagram is @strongwitness. I think the number one’s behind that. And then my business is also on Twitter, @LatoyaSmithLCS. Yeah, so I’m on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

[VERONICA]:
Yep. Definitely reach out.

[LATOYA]:
And the website is lcscac.com.

[VERONICA]:
That’s right. That’s right. LaToya, this was amazing. This was so amazing. And I know we’re going to get a whole bunch of questions. Please, please, please be sure to rate and review this episode. We’ll go ahead and put all the information that LaToya gave us on the show notes. Again, LaToya, you freakin rock. Thank you so much for being a part of this.

[LATOYA]:
Thank you. Thank you for the invite. I appreciate it. I feel good. I felt empowered by talking about it.

[VERONICA]:
Right. You’re feeling it. All right, you guys. Take care.

[VERONICA]:
What’s up, ladies? Just want to let you guys know that your ratings and reviews for this podcast are greatly appreciated. If you love this podcast, please go to iTunes right now and rate and review. Thank you, guys.

Many women lose their own identity in the shadow of being a mom and a wife. We are a community of women who support each other. We leave perfectionism behind to become empowered and unapologetic. I know you’re ready for the next steps. If you want to become empowered and unapologetic get my free course, Unapologetically Me over at empoweredandunapologetic.com/course.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests, are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.