[JOANNA KLEINMAN]: They’re standing at the top of the mountain and they’re at, and there’s not really any place else to go. They’ve accomplished everything they set out to accomplish and they still fundamentally feel the same way. And not only that, but it’s like, they’ve left a trail of dead bodies along the way. Like they’re just the things that really matter, like their relationship with themselves and their relationship with the people that matter the most is broken.
[VERONICA CISNEROS]: Have you ever thought, “How did I manage to lose myself?” Being a mom is so hard, especially when we’re feeling stressed and disconnected. We exhaust ourselves trying to create this perfect life for our family. You deserve to enjoy your marriage and your kids without the stress perfectionism brings. I am going to teach you how to identify who you are outside of all of the roles you play.
Hi, I’m Veronica Cisneros. I’m a wife, mother of three, and a licensed marriage and family therapist. I am on a mission to teach women just like you, how to become empowered and unapologetic. Welcome to our girl gang.
Hey ladies, welcome to Empowered and Unapologetic. I’m your host Veronica Cisneros. Today’s guest is a licensed psychotherapist, life and corporate coach, author, podcaster, motivational speaker, and the founder of Dethroning Your Inner Critic. She’s a complete bad-ass. She considers herself to be an unconventional therapist and is driven by the conviction that the most powerful life you can live is when you know the difference between you and your inner critic. I totally agree. She has developed the Mind Method, a time-tested proven system that brings together practical psychology, neuroscience, and the power of intention to discover who you are separate from the critical voice in your mind. Hallelujah. I’m so glad you’re here.
[VERONICA]: With over twenty-five years of experience, she has worked with corporations such as Campowerment, Cigna, Nestle, and TD Bank. She has transformed the lives of thousands of people detailing how they can design a new future by rewriting the automatic way they think and act and breaking the habit of giving energy and attention to their inner critic. So please help me by welcoming Joanna Kleinman. Joanna, oh my God, this is such a big pleasure. Thank you so much for being on.
[JOANNA]: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
[VERONICA]: Absolutely. Okay, so your complete bad-ass off the top and I love that you take a different unconventional approach to therapy. I don’t know if you know this, but I have a private practice and the name of it is called Outside the Norm Counseling because I’m totally outside the norm.
[JOANNA]: Yes. You and I are kindred spirits, I think.
[VERONICA]: So can you please share with us your story?
[JOANNA]: Yes. Oh my gosh. So my story, well I mean I grew up, my mother is a brilliant psychotherapist. She’s actually still practicing at 76 years old.
[VERONICA]: Oh yes. That’s amazing.
[JOANNA]: Pretty awesome. And you know, she, actually, both of my parents introduced me to self-awareness. And you know, they had been big into that in the late seventies and early eighties. So the bottom line is I kind of used to just tag along with them. I just kind of went to these things and didn’t really pay attention. But what I remember is I was probably about 11 and I watched a woman on a stage completely shift her perspective on something that she was dealing with. The person that was leading the program just had her see something through a completely different lens.
And it was really in that moment that I decided, “You know, what, that’s what I’m going to do with my life.” And I basically never really looked back. The thing about the work that I do in the world is that it is really informed by my personal 30-year journey, my personal self-discovery. And then obviously working with thousands of people over the course of my career. As human beings, we think that we’re so separate. We think that our self-doubt and our fear and our lack of confidence is so personal. And we think that other people, especially as women, we think we look at, to piggyback on what you said, we look at bad-ass women and we [inaudible 00:05:27] have that going on, and that is for this furthest from the truth. So that’s why I developed the work that I do in the world.
[VERONICA]: I love it. I agree with what you just said. A lot of us, especially women, we compare ourselves to each other. What we don’t know is we’re all battling the same thing. It is that inner critic. It is a hundred percent that inner critic. I remember doing a group and I grew up, I had a bunch of women that I felt like they would do really, really well in a group. And I did this group therapy class, it was just one time and I had already known everything that was going on with them. Introduced them, obviously they all agreed to be a part and participate in this group session, and I knew their struggles. I knew their pains. However, the minute we were in a group, all of a sudden it was like, “Welcome to the world of comparison, Welcome home girl.” Wait a minute, “You just said, you own this, and you’re doing this. Five seconds ago you were telling me you’re about to lose it all. And you too with your shoes.” Like, what if, I remember asking them, “What if we could put our guards down? What if we could just be our true, authentic self?” Like, well, what if I just said, “Hey, I’m Veronica and I wasn’t trying to compare.” Like, what would that look like? And everything changed.
[JOANNA]: Yes. You know, the thing is we don’t talk about this. So, so many people, and even the most successful people, we look at successful people and what we don’t know is that very often what drove them to their success is, “I need to get there. I need to get there. I need to get there.” And then they’ve gotten to the place in their success, they have a lot of accomplishments, which is beautiful, but they’re standing at the top of the mountain and they’re at, and there’s not really any place else to go. They’ve accomplished everything they set out to accomplish and they still fundamentally feel the same way. And not only that, but it’s like, they’ve left a trail of dead bodies along the way. Like they’re just the things that really matter, like their relationship with themselves and their relationship with the people that matter the most is broken.
[VERONICA]: I just had a visual of the dead bodies and the dead bodies that I’m thinking of is, I think of the women that are listening to the show and most of the time, those dead bodies are the ones that we love the most, our husbands, our kids, our friends, because we’re so focused on that success. We’re so focused on wanting to be something. In so many ways maybe we are. But at the same time, it’s like, “That’s not really who we want to be.” We’re missing it.
[JOANNA]: And mostly, in my opinion, Veronica, the biggest relationship that we’re missing is our relationship with ourselves.
[VERONICA]: Amen.
[JOANNA]: Because you know, see what I call the voice of the inner critic is a little different than what you might think. So of course it’s the voice of, you’re not good enough and you can’t and you’re going to fail, but it is also the voice that convinces us, “Oh, look, I reached that goal.” That goal means I’m good enough. Because if you think about it, it’s sort of like a pendulum. It’s like we listen to that voice and we try to get that goal and the minute that we accomplish the goal, we’re right back to meeting the next goal in order to feel like we’re good enough.
[VERONICA]: Oh girl, it’s like a drug.
[JOANNA]: It’s a drug. It is literally like a drug. It’s an addiction to a high and we keep chasing the high. And you know, what I like to really support women in doing is no matter what it is, what your goal is, it could be a business goal, it could be a relationship goal, it could be a fitness goal. It could be anything that you’re really working on. How do you enjoy exactly who you are and where you are right now? Even if you’re reaching for creating something that you want, there’s a big difference between going for the life of your dreams when you are already focused on what you already love about yourself and what you already love about the life you’ve already created versus what is automatic, which is, I’m not enough until that condition is met.
[VERONICA]: Yes.
[JOANNA]: That’s what our inner critic does. It sets conditions for our love of ourselves.
[VERONICA]: Yes. So we’re there chasing after this goal, wanting it so badly and not realizing that we’re losing sight. We’re losing sight altogether. And so right now, as you were sharing that, it made me think of how often, because I’ve been guilty of this, I’ve been focused on a goal and whatever was going to stand in my way, I was killing it. I was crushing it, whatever cost. And then I’d pass the finish line, but I’m still running. And I’ve given this example before on an episode, but I’m still running and it’s like, “Home girl, your goal was to run a marathon. You ran it but it was back in California. Now you’re over here in Michigan.” Like, and you’re still running. You’re still running. Where does this come from?
[JOANNA]: So we’ve got a voice in our minds. We think it’s us and it speaks to us from the moment we get up to the moment we go to bed. And this is crazy. Research shows that we have 50,000 to 80,000 thoughts per day.
[VERONICA]: Holy moly.
[JOANNA]: Insane, and 80% of them are negative. So it’s like, we’ve got this mind that just goes. It’s just like our bodies make our hearts beat. Like we don’t tell our minds where to go. And that automatic mind was actually created when we were little girls and little boys. And I’m sure you do this work all the time.
[VERONICA]: Absolutely.
[JOANNA]: For clients. But it’s like we’re trying to make sense of who we are and how we’re valued and how we fit into our world. And this starts when we’re like three, four, five, six years old and we’re assigning meaning, because we’re little children, we’re assigning meaning that’s personal when in fact it’s not. This is where it first starts. So we’ve experience some pain that to a little child feels very overwhelming. Doesn’t have to even be traumatic, but it’s some pain that says something’s wrong. I am in some way not okay. I am in some way not right. And then we quickly go to work to figure out it’s all unconscious. Who do I need to be so that I never feel this pain again?
[VERONICA]: Yes.
[JOANNA]: So it’s this subconscious inner belief. And then when we set out, either we become the smart one or we become the successful one or we become the funny one. Or for some people, they become the quiet one because I’m going to avoid putting myself out there and risking judgment or failure. And you know, as an entrepreneur, this, when you’re going for a life of your dreams, in whatever area you’re going for, what it really takes is putting yourself outside of your comfort zone over and over and over. That’s the only way that we go for our dreams. And it’s so heartbreaking because so many people are stuck because what they’re really doing is they’re listening to their automatic mind try and protect them from stepping outside of their comfort zone.
[VERONICA]: Absolutely.
[JOANNA]: So if you’re listening to that voice, you’re going to be stuck and being stuck makes you uncomfortable. Now, the truth is going for your dreams makes you uncomfortable. If I’m delivering a keynote to like let’s say, I’m delivering a keynote to 500 people, that doesn’t sound comfortable.
[VERONICA]: There’s nerves all over the place.
[JOANNA]: That’s it, it’s the willingness to feel uncomfortable and to understand you are separate from your inner critic mind. The voice that is making you feel uncomfortable, the automatic thoughts, they’re not going anywhere.
[VERONICA]: No, no.
[JOANNA]: And that’s, so many people want to quiet that voice. They want to eliminate that voice. They want to get rid of the fear.
[VERONICA]: We just want the answer. We just want the answer. We don’t want to feel it. We want to get rid of it. We want to avoid it. We want to distract ourselves. That’s common.
[JOANNA]: That’s it. And that’s, so if we don’t want to feel the discomfort, we’re going to stay stuck.
[VERONICA]: Amen.
[JOANNA]: And the discomfort is only caused by our thoughts. Our thoughts create those emotions and the emotions are just an inner sensation. They’re not going to kill us so we can be in the sadness or in the fear or in the doubt or in the what if and we can use those feelings to actually use them as teaching tools. So we can say, “Well, I’m feeling sad right now. I’m having, there’s some automatic thoughts that I’m having about some circumstance.”
[VERONICA]: Yes.
[JOANNA]: Most people think it’s the circumstances of their lives that determine how they feel. It’s never the circumstances.
[VERONICA]: No, no, no.
[JOANNA]: It’s always our thoughts, our automatic thoughts about the circumstances. Do we have painful circumstances? Of course we do.
[VERONICA]: Absolutely.
[JOANNA]: But, you know, sometimes your pain can be, I call it clean pain versus dirty pain.
[VERONICA]: Ooh, tell me more.
[JOANNA]: Yes. So, okay, like clean pain. Let’s say somebody that you love dies, or let’s say you lose a job that you really loved. Of course, you’re going to feel pain about that. Dirty pain is when you have the sadness, but then there’s all this other meaning. Like if your loved one dies and you say, “Well maybe if I had done a better job making sure that this person took care of themselves, they wouldn’t have died.” Self-blame. Or maybe if I were smarter or more accomplished or more successful, I wouldn’t have lost my job. That’s where we buy into beliefs about ourselves that we’ve been thinking truth, be told ,since we were little girls.
[VERONICA]: Well, yes. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is we’re being triggered. In those moments, we are being triggered to a past event, to a past emotion that we’ve never ever dealt with. And so many of us run away from it. I’m like, and don’t get me wrong, I’ve been guilty of this myself. You know, as you were sharing, it was like, Holy moly. There’s times when you know, starting with, you and I were talking offline right now about, you know, we’re both therapists and therapy, it’s like we know it, we’re all about it. But this new world, this new social media world, it’s a totally different animal. And there’s been so many times where I’ve had to say to myself, “Okay, wait a minute, Veronica. Are you living the life you want to live or are you just chasing this dream?” Because you could do both and I think that’s where a lot of us get lost is we don’t realize we can do both because of that inner critic. In addition to that, not knowing or not having the tools to go in and just kind of sit in emotion and allow it to happen.
[JOANNA]: That’s right. That’s right. You know, when we’re going for our dreams, the truth is that half of the time life goes the way we want it to and half of the time, life does not go the way that we want it to.
[VERONICA]: Oh God. Don’t tell me that. Don’t tell me that.
[JOANNA]: You know, I can look at my journey. I can look at my journey in my business. I can look at my journey in raising my three kids who are now teenagers. I can look at my journey in my marriage of 23 years. And you know, there’ve been plenty of times where I’ve experienced failure, I’ve experienced feeling rejected, I’ve experienced things not going the way that my inner critic wants them to go. But the truth is all there ever is to do in any part of life is just take the next step. If it doesn’t go the way we want, we can step back. We can say, “Oh, okay. That didn’t go the way I wanted.” Now, what can I learn from that? How can I grow and how can I learn?” And then let’s take the next step.
And if you just keep doing that, if you just keep taking the next step, your life is going to go somewhere. You don’t have to necessarily know what are all the perfect 10 steps or 20 steps or a hundred steps I need to take to get that goal, to look exactly the way that I want it to. Our businesses are our lives, our relationships. They’re always growing. They’re always evolving. If we can just go in the flow, we take action, because we can’t just sit back and just flow with it. We’ve got to take action, but it’s a both end. It’s taking action while at the same time, staying present and going with the flow of where life is taking us and trusting that all we ever to do is choose empowering thoughts for whatever circumstances occurring. Choose the most empowering thought so that we can feel more at peace and more centered and more free. That’s how we design lives we love.
[VERONICA]: Right now, you’re totally speaking to me right now on so many levels. Here’s why. Private practice, knock it out of the park. Awesome. Referrals, we’re really well known in our town and have a really good relationship with people in the community. This, I call it a different animal because it is. It’s a different animal. It has, like how you mentioned being an entrepreneur, there’s so many challenges stepping outside of your comfort zone. It’s different. Here’s why. As a therapist, I know my craft. I know it. It’s like, “Let’s go.” The minute a client, a patient’s in front of me, it’s like, “Oh, we’re going to do some work.” And I get so excited. The second part that I’m on, it’s constantly met with some form of failure because I don’t know. I don’t know which I have to hire people. I have to ask.
And what I’ve noticed and I’m going to, I want to apply this to me, what I’ve noticed is Holy moly, it’s triggering me on all sorts of levels. There was a time and I still struggle with it that I’d go to bed thinking about, “Okay, so you have to do this post. You got to do this post. You got to make it relatable.” And then I’m starting a course, it’s not enough, I’m not meeting that goal, I’m not enough. That does come up. Even for me, who’s a therapist, I can tell you right now, it’s a cognitive distortion. I can go ahead and challenge it. It’s an internal trigger. It comes from my childhood. I could tell you all of those things. I can break it down. However, it still happens even for me.
[JOANNA]: Oh, yes.
[VERONICA]: And so there’s a point where I have to realize, “Well, wait a minute, just because I’m a therapist, doesn’t mean I’m not human.” And yes, of course I have the tools. Yes, of course, I have the questions. It’s still happening. It’s still happening, and I literally have to work on that.
[JOANNA]: Every day. That’s why I developed this work because see, this is exactly why I don’t call my work [inaudible 00:23:26] your inner critic silence, your inner critic kicked to the curb. It is moment by moment by moment seeing, and I call that voice her. When I work with my clients, I have them give it a separate name. And they know exactly where it’s coming, when it speaks, why it speaks, where it shows up, where it’s always shown up. So you see it. You see it for what it is, oh, there you are. Here’s my inner critic. That’s not me. Then in that moment, you unhook from it. It’s still there screaming at you. In fact, the more we’re going for the bigger things, the louder it gets.
[VERONICA]: Oh, girl, it gets so loud.
[JOANNA]: So loud. So we just, we unhook from it .and then we step into what I call a new mind. Now a new mind has a brand new thought and the brand new thoughts maybe are something like, “I already am enough. I already have everything in me already that I need. I don’t need to prove myself. I don’t need for other people to think highly of me. I don’t need to control other people’s judgements or opinions.” So from that new thought, we start to cultivate a new emotion where we’re more centered and we’re more at peace. And then we’re free to take the action. Even if the action is scary, even when like, “Ah I don’t know how this is going to go,” we do it and then we see what shows up.
And that’s really all we ever have. See it, unhook from it, step into a new thought that creates new emotions, that creates new behaviors. And it is those new behaviors that over time are going to create a brand new result in your life. And you know, Veronica, the thing is you like me, really all we’re doing is we’re just continuing to build the muscle of being able to distinguish the difference between ourselves and the voice of our inner critic.
[VERONICA]: Yes.
[JOANNA]: That’s it. It’s the most powerful life you can live when you know the difference between you and your inner critic, but it’s never going away.
[VERONICA]: No, no, no. I love that you’re saying, I love that your primary focus is making peace with it. Like it’s going to be there. Allow it to be there. For me, I think of like, who did I need to be to receive love? Who did I need to be as a kid to go ahead and gain acceptance? And I needed to be in my mind, my parents didn’t tell me this. Nobody told me this. It goes back to how you started kind of view the world. And for me, I had to be that academic. I had to be smart one. I had to be the educated one. You know, I had to have all of the answers because of everything that was going on in my household. And I love that you say that because yes, I see her and it’s like, all right. So you’re there. So you’re there. And all that is is, it’s things, for me, how I term it is they’re lies that you told yourself. You didn’t even know, but now you’re aware.
[JOANNA]: And, but it’s not, and you’re right. It is lies that you thought were true and now the purpose of that voice right now, whenever it shows up, it’s just trying to protect you.
[VERONICA]: Yes.
[JOANNA]: [crosstalk] post that thing, you’re going to get judged. People are going to think you don’t have it all together and you’re not as smart as you should be. It all goes back. You know, I always say, you were talking about like a drug right before, the attachment to the high. So I always say that our inner critic absolutely has addictions. And these are the demands that our inner critic makes on the outside world so that we can feel okay. So it’s like, in your case, here you are building this amazing thing for women. And what you know Veronica, you know this like the back of your hand. You know what a profound difference you make in the world.
I know we just met, but I know that you have heard this, a million times over, how powerful you are and yet, every time you’re putting yourself out there, “I’m going to make a post and I’m going to do this.” What shows up is like, “Oh my God. What if somebody thinks, you know, fill in the blank. What does somebody thinks I’m not enough?” That’s the demand of your, that’s the addiction. When you can see the addiction and let go of it, and here’s the difference. Of course, we all want to be liked. Of course, I don’t want to be judged. Of course, I want people to think highly of me but the difference is when it is a preference versus a need, you have a lot more freedom.
[VERONICA]: A hundred percent. As you were talking, it was like, “Oh my God, she knows me.”
[JOANNA]: I know you because I know me. I developed this work because this is exactly what I needed to do for myself. So I always say like, I’m like five years ahead of where other people are. But that doesn’t, that’s all. I’m doing this every single day of my life, and not just in my business. I mean, it shows in my business, but, you know, I got three teenagers right now. And so it’s always showing up where I have to kind of let go of what I want their decisions to be and I want their lives to be. Because this is their life. And you know, I’ve taught, I guide them and I love them, but I can’t control them. I might want to control them —
[VERONICA]: Oh gosh. All day, all day. I love that you said that. And it’s something that, obviously not only do I practice, as you know, in my day, as a mom, as a wife, as a clinician, as a coach. I think that is so important because if we’re not relatable, then all we’re doing is throwing books at people all day in terms. It doesn’t help. The minute we’re able to identify with somebody and relate with them, we’re now a human being that could connect.
[JOANNA]: Exactly. Yes.
[VERONICA]: I read on one of your posts. It said, I quickly learned living a life where you are constantly seeking approval from others is a life that can cause a lot of pain and suffering.
[JOANNA]: Yes, yes. And that especially as women.
[VERONICA]: Yes.
[JOANNA]: Our culture conditions us as women to want to seek out people’s approval.
[VERONICA]: Yes, a hundred percent.
[JOANNA]: We want to be liked. We want to be loved. And so we focus externally out there, how am I going to feel loved and valued by you? It could be you, my life partner. It could be you, my boss. It could be you, my kid. It could be you Joe Schmoe on the street. So I developed like a four step, you’d mentioned it in the beginning. I developed a four step method called the Mind Method, because this is, women really need an owner’s manual for their mind.
[VERONICA]: A recipe book. Yes, please.
[JOANNA]: It is because otherwise really what’s happening is our inner critics are just ruling our lives. It’s like giving the keys of your car to your five-year-old and being like, “Okay, can you drive us around?” You’re going to get into a lot of accidents. So I mean, real quick, M is meet your inner critic, I is, that’s like knowing the voice of your inner critic. I is the blinking red lights; investigate the indication sign. So when you are about to post something and your heart is racing like that, that’s an indication sign that it’s back on her throat. The N step is neutralize the never ending message. So, and Veronica, I’ll use you as an example. If you took all human beings, you have boiled us all down, I don’t know how many people that we are on the planet, 9 billion, whatever, we all fall into, probably about like 10 categories of what I’ll call a core issue.
That is some, it doesn’t have to be anything traumatic. Something happens when we’re young and we quickly decide who do we need to be? Your never-ending message might be like, let’s say, if somebody doesn’t like your post, the never-ending message might be, “I’m not enough.” That’s my core issue. That’s worse. So my inner critic will always go for, I’m not enough. And I had my seven year old version of that, and I had my 15 year old version of that, and I had my 25 year old version of that. And I just turned 50 last month and I have my 50 year old version of it. So that’s the point. So when we become so intimately familiar with her, like meeting her, we investigate the indication signs, we recognize that never ending message and we neutralize it by unhooking from it.
Now the D step is now design our lives. And for you, what I’m hearing you say is that you are doing an extraordinary job designing this incredible life. You have a vision, you see what’s possible, and basically what you’re doing is you’re just taking your inner critic along the journey and continuing to take the next step and the next step and the next step. And that’s how you are building something extraordinary.
[VERONICA]: Yes. Getting comfortable with that uncomfortable.
[JOANNA]: That’s it, that’s the name of the game.
[VERONICA]: If we were to follow all of those steps and I love the indicator, I love being able to go ahead and identify, if we were able to follow all of those steps, not only would we be able to make peace with that inner critic, but in addition to that, we would be living the life we want to live. We literally would.
[JOANNA]: We literally would. I truly believe that when we are taught how to manage our minds, this education has the potential to change the whole planet.
[VERONICA]: A hundred percent.
[JOANNA]: I think anger and hatred and sadness and all sorts of things that really plague us as a culture, I think start with fundamental beliefs and pain that people don’t know how to address and so they operate on top of it.
[VERONICA]: Yes, and then that goes into avoiding compartmentalizing, not moving forward.
[JOANNA]: Or numbing.
[VERONICA]: Oh gosh, yes. So I have two questions to ask you. I don’t want to end this. However, I also want to make sure I value your time.
[JOANNA]: Yes, we can talk forever.
[VERONICA]: We really could. We’ve so many similarities. I love it. My question to you that I ask all my guests is what are you personally doing right now to live the life you want to live?
[JOANNA]: What I am personally doing is while I am really building my dreams, I am staying present. I’m staying present to exactly who I already am, what a beautiful life I’ve already created, the parts of myself and my life that I already love. I really get myself very, very present to gratitude. And from that place, I’m designing my life but that is the foundation; is just already loving exactly what is.
[VERONICA]: Beautiful. Beautiful. I love that. Second question. What advice and one sentence would you give to the mom who feels stressed and disconnected?
[JOANNA]: To the mom who feels stress is connected. Yes. I would say our one and only job as moms is to love our kids.
[VERONICA]: Oh yes. Yes.
[JOANNA]: They are on their own journeys. We can guide, might have to set boundaries, but we’ve got to let them sort out their journey and we’ve just got to love them.
[VERONICA]: Yes. I love that. So Joanna, where can we find you?
[JOANNA]: Oh, let’s yes, well, my website is dethroningyourinnercritic.com. I have a podcast that has 30,000 downloads already.
[VERONICA]: Congratulations.
[JOANNA]: So that’s, dethroningyourinnercritic.com. I just launched my first book called Dethroning Your Inner Critic: The Four – Step Journey from Self – Doubt to Self – Empowerment that is available on Amazon. And as of February of 2020 will also available on Audible. And I’m on Instagram, Dethroning Your Inner Critic, Facebook, Dethroning Your Inner Critic. And yes, that’s where you can find me.
[VERONICA]: There you go. She’s not only giving where you can find her, but she’s also giving you some feedback. Dethrone your damn inner Critic
[JOANNA]: That’s right.
[VERONICA]: And then the last question, will you be giving our audience a free giveaway?
[JOANNA]: Yes, actually I have a masterclass and I would love to be able to offer that to your audience. So the best way to do that is to email hello@dethroningyourinnercritic.com, hello@dethroningyourinnercritic.com and say, “I want my free masterclass.”
[VERONICA]: Give me my free masterclass. Awesome. Joanna, thank you so much for being on this. This was absolutely amazing in so many ways personally, and I know this is going to be of great value to our listeners. So thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
[JOANNA]: It was absolutely my pleasure, Veronica. Thank you so much.
[VERONICA]: What’s up ladies? Just want to let you guys know that your ratings and reviews for this podcast are greatly appreciated. If you love this podcast, please go to iTunes right now and rate and review. Thank you guys.
Many women lose their own identity in the shadow of being a mom and a wife. We are a community of women who support each other. We leave perfectionism behind to become empowered and unapologetic. I know you’re ready for the next steps. If you want to become empowered and unapologetic, get my free course, Unapologetically Me over empoweredandunapologetic.com/course.
Empowered and Unapologetic is part of the Practice of the Practice podcast network, a family of podcasts that changes the world. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom podcast, Beta Male Revolution or Imperfect Thriving, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.
This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.