[VERONICA]:
I’ve been married for 21 years. I’m waiting for Willie to pop in somewhere and say no, that’s wrong, 22 or 20 because I don’t ever get it right. I’m pretty sure it’s 21 years. And I’ve learned to go ahead and embrace conflict. And the reason why I’ve learned how to embrace conflict is because it’s inevitable. It’s inevitable. We’re two different people with two different opinions.

[VERONICA]:
Have you ever thought, how did I manage to lose myself? Being a mom is so hard, especially when we’re feeling stressed and disconnected. We exhaust ourselves trying to create this perfect life for our family. You deserve to enjoy your marriage and your kids, without the stress perfectionism brings. I am going to teach you how to identify who you are, outside of all of the roles you play.

Hi, I’m Veronica Cisneros. I’m a wife, mother of three, and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. I am on a mission to teach women just like you how to become empowered and unapologetic. Welcome to our girl gang.

[VERONICA]:
Hey ladies, welcome to Empowered and Unapologetic. I’m your host, Veronica Cisneros. We are totally going to shake things up right now because I have an amazing woman that has just joined us who’s totally like, I literally asked her last night, hey, girl, you want to be on my podcast, totally caught her off guard and I’m so thankful to have her. So today’s guest is a 39 year old woman who is married for 29 years, who has been married, I totally promoted you, girl, who has been married for 12 years, with tons of hobbies. She has a Doctorate of Physical Therapy, which she practices every day with her family. Her hobbies include baking, cooking, crafting. She is a stay at home mom who is currently attempting to master online schooling. Aren’t we all? She is an avid spinner and loves her peloton bike. So please help me by welcoming Sanjuana Saenz. Hey, Sanjuana.

[SANJUANA]:
Hey, how are you, Veronica?

[VERONICA]:
I’m doing so good. So this is your first podcast recording, like ever, so I understand if it’s like…

[SANJUANA]:
So thank you for having me.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself? You mentioned mastering online schooling, which I’m gonna tell you right now, like I told you a little while ago, I’m still trying to get to know my daughter’s teacher. Like, tell me about yourself and what it’s been like to be staying at home right now.

[SANJUANA]:
So usually, you know, I am a stickler with routines, and I love having to, I know where things are going, I know how the day is going to progress. That’s not the case right now. And it hasn’t been the case since August. But I sort of put myself out there and I said, you know, I can do this, I can handle it. And it’s only for a short while and this pandemic won’t last forever. And you know, putting my best foot forward and then realizing that that was not enough. Come December, the holidays come around and travel plans and everything’s breaking down. The kids are exhausted from online schooling as well. And my husband, he’s, you know, busy working and I’m busy trying to control every aspect of like, okay, let’s make this easier for everybody except, you know, it’s impossible.

So, I find myself losing it with the kids more frequently, my husband more frequently, like even myself, like things that I do that I usually don’t do that same way that has worked before, I just feel like it’s breaking down and that overwhelmed feeling is coming out more often than not. When I could keep control of things like before, not necessarily control but I could keep my cool and I’m a very calm person. It’s just exploding. I sometimes find myself like trying to mellow out and I just can’t, there’s just too many things that get in the way of me being able to basically live peacefully and it’s currently impossible with three kids but still you know you can manage their personalities a little bit and you know how each one of them is and it just has not been that way because you mentally prepare yourself for a set number of months or you know, a semester of doing this and then things are gonna go back to normal. But now I’m reaching my peak of like okay, this, something has to change. So, if school is not going to change, and my kids obviously are not going to change, then there’s something else that I have to be able to be okay with. And I just have, I don’t know what that is.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah, no, I can totally relate with you, I can relate with you on so many levels, with everything, with the pandemic, with us being in quarantine, with the girls, and, you know, with Willie and trying to go ahead and be on the same page, conflict is something that comes up regularly. And I think the reason why conflict comes up regularly is because there’s so many things going on. We’re looking at when all of this started, I didn’t know where my practice was going to be. So there was a discussion about finances. In addition to that, you know, what was the stability with Willie’s job? How are the girls going to handle online learning? You know, and then our thoughts about politics, our thoughts about Black Lives Matter, our thoughts about everything that’s going on, you know, and different topics kept on coming up. And we had the choice whether you avoid them altogether, or you confront them, and you have those discussions.

And so what I’m finding right now is, I’m finding it’s really, really difficult for couples to go out and have a discussion. And so what most women will do, and if I can read your quote, it’s on our mistake number three, which is what we’re focusing on today, I avoid conflict, I let a few days pass and then carry on as if nothing happened. I can’t tell you how many times, when I read that, Sanjuana, it was like, she like, she just said it. Like I love that she just said it, because it’s something that I hear so often. I was guilty of this myself. And what I realized not only from being a therapist, but also being a wife and just working with others is holy crap, the damage it does, not only to ourselves and our self esteem, but what it does to our relationships. You know, it ends up building up all of this resentment, we don’t even know we have, we’re not even aware of.

[SANJUANA]:
Yeah. When I wrote that, I know, and it happens a lot. I know, I took something that I learned, and then I just applied it to everything. So I learned a while back to ask myself, is it a fire? And so then, I just applied that to a lot more things. You know, I was like, well, you know, he’s grumpy. Or they’re just rambunctious, it’s not a fire, or, you know, I’m really overwhelmed with this work and I feel like I need help. But you know, it’s not a fire. So I didn’t ask for help. So I didn’t tell them to stop. So I didn’t say, hey, you know, your attitude is really bothering me. I just kind of like, kept saying that to myself to the point where it’s like, okay, wait a minute. It’s a fire in me, like, now I’m on fire.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah.

[SANJUANA]:
And so instead of shutting down, what I usually do, I just shut down. I’m like, you know what, it’s not that important. I’ll just, you know, we’ll just get over it. And, you know, he’s probably just hangry. Kinda make excuses for that behavior, instead of saying something that would truly just sedate things and say, okay, let’s talk about this or what, what’s going on? I’m not even interested in knowing what’s going on, because I just don’t want to open the can of worms, in that aspect, you know. So, I went from that extreme to like, I’m exploding everywhere. And it’s coming out of me. And it’s hard to kind of put that back and find the right balance between is it a fire and like, just blowing up at people, like randomly.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah, can you please give us more of an example when you say it’s coming out of me? What do you mean?

[SANJUANA]:
So it’s sort of like an uncontrollable urge to like, maybe have everything under control again. I would like to say that I have things, like, because of the routine, I have things under control. Like, it’s, I got it. That’s my motto. I got this, you know, I’ve got it all. It’s okay if I don’t but I got it. So it’s mentally that’s that’s just the type of person I am. If I don’t have a solution, I’ll find one. I’ll fix it. It’s just me. But so much of that, I feel like when I can’t control a situation, say my husband is very stressed out and he says something snarky and then in my nature, I’m already like a sarcastic kind of person. And he says, I’m a little too witty like, and he you know, he’s not ready for the comment that comes out of my mouth. And it’s just like, we build up on that. And he’s like, oh, I didn’t, you know, I didn’t like that comment. Or if he doesn’t say that he just says, see, you’re looking for a fight again. And I’m like, no, no, instead of like saying, no, let me tone it down. No, I’m like, let me [unclear]. And it just kind of keeps on building up, or like I can, I can manage that. But I made the choice not to when he was snarky at me. And then it just kind of just comes out as far as like, my anger on like, everything that’s been going on in the week. My resentment for him just being in the office and not being able to help out with the children. Just all the tasks that I have to do are like, they’re a priority in the house, so it doesn’t get done. But no one else sees that because it’s sort of like my job to do it. Honestly, like when I say it just comes out, it’s more of a rage. And I don’t like that feeling. You know? I feel like I could, if I could avoid that, that’d be great.

[VERONICA]:
I love that you said that my motto is I can do it. I can do it. I’ll do it. Right, where right now, whenever you’ve come over, one thing I’ve always said, and I didn’t even realize how often I was saying it. But I always say, dejalo, like let him, let him. I always say that. And I didn’t realize the opposites, like how you were saying, I’ll do it. And I’m saying, let them do it. Like, and I didn’t realize it, didn’t click until right now. What’s happening is the result of you saying I got it, I got it. I got it. And I’ve been there. I’ve shared with you, I’ve shared with you, you know, personal stories of how I’ve said I got it because I wanted that sense of control similar to you. I felt as if, if I have the control of the household, well then it’ll run smoothly.

And it comes through, I think it came from not only what I learned from my mom, because my dad was never, I don’t want to say he was never in the house. However, my dad wasn’t really an active, wasn’t an active parent. I hate to say that. However, it’s true. My mom was the one that kept us in line. And, you know, she knew everything that was going on. So I watched this play out in their marriage. And it was like, well, that has to be what it looks like in my marriage. So with Willie’s deployments, I felt as if I have to have everything under control, because if something slips, it’s me. It’s just me. What happens with us mom’s is, yeah, it’s just you. And so guess what, not only are you avoiding conflict, but you’re also avoiding recruiting other people to help you. So you’re doing it all by herself.

And then comes in my, you know, me being a therapist. Well, where does that level of self worth come in? It doesn’t, because we’re not worthy. And we’re not worthy, because we have to control everything. So I’m going to go ahead and give you my all and I’m going to give, you know, my husband, my all. But what that does to us when we really sit down and think about it is your mind goes straight into you’re doing this because you’re not worthy. And when you start to argue it, he doesn’t realize all the sacrifices you’ve made. And so there’s this internal struggle, you know, and look, he doesn’t appreciate all the things you’ve done, your kids don’t appreciate all the things you’ve done. So you do more, you know, but again, still avoiding conflict altogether. Which, which slowly decreases your self esteem. Most of us don’t realize that’s happening at all. It’s like, well, no, I’m fine. You know, I can’t tell you how many moms I’ve asked, you know, will tell me where you’re at with, you know, your level of confidence. And it’s like, well, I don’t know, I don’t even know how to answer that question.

[SANJUANA]:
Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, I can relate to that. Just being fine is my go to answer as well. When I am busy trying to get things in order, we’re fine. Well, what do you need? Oh, no, I’m fine. Why? Because I’m stuck to the mentality of if you want to get it done, right, I want to do it. You know, you have to do it yourself. Yeah. It’s more of, I think, at that point, I just can’t let go of things.

[VERONICA]:
I wouldn’t, so I would challenge that because I wouldn’t say you can’t let go of things. Here’s why. There’s so much you’re doing. And so what we don’t realize is we’re kind of keeping a tally of all the things we’ve done. All of the things we’ve done with some expectations that they’ll either appreciate us, support us, validate us, or even acknowledge it. And when none of that’s happening, we’re not asking for them to do what we’ve done in return. However, if they can just acknowledge, acknowledge what we’ve done, well, it would be that much more satisfying.

And so, you know, in the workbook, I asked a question, what started the disagreement? And most of the time I’m met with, well, it’s something he said, or I don’t even know, I have no idea, right? It’s one of the two, he either said something, he did something, or I have no clue, I have no clue. Well I would argue, the disagreement started when you compromised yourself. That’s when it started. Because if we look at it, if you kind of take a step back and look at it, you were already doing something that compromised you, that you agreed to, that you made this active choice to do, again, in hopes that there would be some level of acknowledgement. That’s when the disagreement started.

And so if we can kind of take a step back and look at it, and say to ourselves, well, is this something I really want to do? You know, is this something I really, really want to do? Because I’m trying to run a household, I’m trying to get control of everything. And the reality is, I don’t have the control. I don’t have the power. You know, it doesn’t mean you’re less of a mom, it’s just, it’s just recognizing I don’t have this control. I don’t. So if I don’t, can I recruit help?

[SANJUANA]:
Yeah, it’s, um, right now with the whole instacart thing. You know, Adrian’s very frugal. I’m not, but I try. So, I am ordering food in because for me to go out 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour and a half to just get groceries. And then I still forget stuff because I don’t have a list. But I come back, and there’s stuff that needs to get taken care of when I come back. So then I was not only rushing at the store, I’m rushing here at home, and I’m rushing to get lunch in, I’m rushing to get them back online. And then I’m rushing to get the baby down, and I’m just rushing all day long. So I started doing instacart. And I’ve ordered stuff and he’s sort of like, you know, it’s a little more expensive when you order from instacart. And he’s got some valid points. And I’m like, well, I think I’m gonna value my time here more with you guys instead of rushing and trying to get into an accident of sorts, I just, I think that I needed to do that this week. He’s like, okay, yeah. And that’s it.

But having responded that way, I get it, you know, it went by really smoothly. Usually, that’s not the response. Usually, my response is like, well then, you’re going to the grocery store.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah, yeah.

[SANJUANA]:
And well, I’ve done enough. And I’ve had this and I have to do that and da, da, da, da. And I just keep going on the list of duties that I have that he’s just like, fine, I’ll go. And then he goes, and he, you know, gets what he gets. And then he comes back, and we just keep going. And I’m still not happy because it didn’t get done right. I didn’t get the way that I wanted it. And it’s just, it’s more of like the way I communicate. That’s why I probably prefer not to go into conflict, because I don’t know, it escalates so fast. And it shouldn’t. It shouldn’t, it should be more of like a smooth process of being able to just saying that this is what’s going to help me right now and move on from that, instead of just blowing up and saying something that I regret immediately.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. So take me there. So when you’re trying to tell him the 50,000 reasons why it’s better for you to, you know, shop with instacart versus go, I want you to identify the emotions that are there. Like, you’re not saying I’m gonna spend extra money just cuz. I’m not doing this just to piss you off. I’m doing this because I have so much on my plate. So what are the emotions that you’re currently experiencing when you’re attempting to go ahead and communicate your reasons for taking that action?

[SANJUANA]:
I think initially is just a sense of, like, I’m overwhelmed. I am overwhelmed in my head really, it’s an overwhelming feeling of like, I have to, I have to, you know, it’s not like I need to or I want to, no, I have to get things done. It’s the pressure that I have on me personally, to make sure the kids get fed. Or make sure that I’m there when the baby wakes up from a nap. Why? Because he’s on the call. So I’m thinking ahead for everybody else. I’m thinking ahead for when the kids get snacks and how dad is going to be in a meeting at that time and how, you know, when I put the baby down, how it fits perfectly into the morning schedule for the routine, for the kids’ classes, and I can help the little one. It’s just, I’m thinking ahead so that frustration of not being able to, to get that done just because I gotta go to the grocery store.

We gotta eat, you know, it’s more frustration and then it’s like a fear of like, okay, something’s gonna break down when I’m gone. Like, because this, these gears don’t turn themselves. That’s my thought.

[VERONICA]:
I love that you said that.

[SANJUANA]:
These gears need me. So something’s gonna break down. And when I come back, I’m going to be met with I’m hungry, I peed on myself, or, you know, the 5 year old one. It’s just, he’s got ideas, and he does things. And he talks without being talked to in class, but the baby’s awake, and my husband’s coming out and saying the three kids need something and, you know, I’m in a meeting. And so that’s my fear. Like, I can’t leave the house because they need me to run the gears, you know. So that’s why it’s a lot of frustrations, a lot of overwhelming feelings of like, this fear that something’s gonna break down, and then we’re gonna be off track for that day, you know?

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. So the next question I would ask is, what are your thoughts and you’ve kind of just hit on them. My thought is, you know, with me being gone, the house is going to turn into shambles, it’s going to impact my husband while he’s in a meeting, it’s going to interrupt his meeting, it’s going to frustrate him even more when I come back, I’m going to be met with an argument, you know, or why didn’t I catch this? And I’m left with all of these emotions, and all of these thoughts and all of that, I want to avoid altogether. Hence, the reason why ordering online is easier, it’s more effective. And yet, my husband feels like I’m against him, or I’m not in line with the finances.

[SANJUANA]:
The budget.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. And now I’m looking like the one that’s resistant versus part of the team.

[SANJUANA]:
Right. Yeah.

[VERONICA]:
All of those thoughts are a couple things, they’re irrational thoughts. I’m not saying they’re not true, because some of them I’m gonna tell you right now, yeah, yeah, he’s probably thinking all of those things, you know. However, here’s why they’re irrational. Because a lot of them are this form of mind reading, we’re attempting to go ahead and read his mind. And why are we attempting to read his mind, right? We’re attempting to read his mind and the reason why we’re attempting to read his mind is to avoid conflict. All of this surrounds avoiding conflict. And so my question is, what’s wrong with conflict? It’s healthy. Don’t get me wrong. It sucks. I know, you’re about to give me the crazy eyes. But like, I know, it sucks. Believe me.

I mean, I’ve been married for 21 years. I’m waiting for Willie to pop in somewhere and say, no, that’s wrong. 22 or 20. Because I don’t ever get it right. I’m pretty sure it’s 21 years. And I’ve learned to go ahead and embrace conflict. And the reason why I’ve learned to embrace conflict is because it’s inevitable. It’s inevitable. We’re two different people with two different opinions. So if I was to ask you, Sanjuana, jump in, like, allow the argument to happen. Not where you’re playing games, not where you’re trying to one up somebody, but like, what comes up for you, even when I say that, like, lean in? Let’s let it happen.

[SANJUANA]:
More of, how often is this gonna happen, because I get tired of conflict, you know, you get tired, it’s emotionally taxing to be in that state of like, okay, come on, bring it to me, like, what’s next? And it’s an exhausting feeling to kind of be walking on eggshells to see, oh, when is the next one? And I don’t like it. So I’d rather, you know, modify and make sure that it doesn’t happen before we get there. Or maybe it’s just a form that I communicate with him. Like, I feel like if I were armed with like, the appropriate response to what he’s saying then I, you know, we’d probably avoid it together, sort of like well, I needed this because XYZ. I usually don’t go there. I usually just pop right into it. And without even understanding what you just explained about all the stuff that’s going on, behind the scenes, and the reason why I needed to go through instacart for example. If I were to just be able to explain that, maybe things would be a little bit different. Maybe the conflict wouldn’t be so I wouldn’t try to avoid it as much. But I don’t realize that it’s avoidable. I don’t realize that it’s something that I should lean into. I just feel that it gets negative. Anytime that I have to confront a situation with him in particular, because I can do it with my kids, I can do it with friends. I can do it with my parents. I feel like just with him, I’d rather not. You know, I’d just rather not.

[VERONICA]:
Has anybody taught you how to?

[SANJUANA]:
No, and I think I owe that to my dear father, because we never, and this is something that I’ve learned recently because I, you know, more conversations that I have with my mom. She’ll tell me, oh, you know, your dad’s going visiting people again, and he’s got illness and diabetes. And he shouldn’t be around people. And it’s just something that comes up like, well, tell him. I do. But he just walks away. He just walks away. And every time I try to bring something else up, he’s like, walks away, closes the door in his room. And that’s it. And I’m like, you should probably tell him what it makes you feel, and I’m like all therapists, like, it doesn’t work that way. Like, even if I tried, he will explode. And he’ll be like, what is it that you want? Why can’t you just leave me alone? Like, what did I do to you? And, and he’ll, again, walk away after saying certain things like that. Like he doesn’t like conflict. He doesn’t like confronting any kind of situation. He’d rather just like, walk away. And there was an event over Christmas that he decided to, something happened. And he walked outside of the house that he didn’t come back in and we’re like, where’s Dad? He just didn’t come back in, even after the whole situation was calm and mellow. He just chose not to. And he left and we couldn’t bring him back in. So I mean, that’s just the kind of person I saw, like, wow, well, that doesn’t fix the situation, but it sure does extinguish it, I would think, you know.

[VERONICA]:
So, I would disagree. What ends up happening, I would disagree. Here’s why. It doesn’t necessarily extinguish it, because now your mom’s left with, this is the way we argue. So this is why I can’t say anything. These are the reasons why I have to keep them to myself, which then turns into urges and impulses and rage. We fall victim to those emotions. And most of us women fall victim to emotions, because we don’t know how to express ourselves. We don’t know how to communicate. Who’s taught us? My parents, surely didn’t, my mom never set boundaries. I wish she would have, you know, and looking back, I don’t want to say my mom was passive. However, you know, there was a lot of things maybe she wished she would have been able to say no to, you know, or maybe even stand up for, like, you know, stand up for herself is what I mean. And with my dad, my dad took this more aggressive approach.

And looking back and working with couples, I work with a lot of couples, especially right now, what are they trying to communicate? Both of them? What are they trying to communicate? They’re both on the same team. They both want the same thing. They both love each other. It’s just both don’t know how to go out and express themselves. Men shut down when they don’t have answers. They do, most men shut down because they want to fix it. And if they don’t know how to fix it, well guess what? That’s when they leave the room. You know, in women, that’s when they feel the most rejected and the most resentment because it’s like, well, wait a minute, why am I still left with this issue? You get to just leave, and then act like everything’s okay. So, if you were able to go ahead and express your wants, express your needs in a healthy manner and your husband in turn was able to go in and express his wants and needs. What would that look like in your marriage?

[SANJUANA]:
I feel like as far as I go, I wouldn’t be in this walking on eggshells kind of feeling, I wouldn’t have that fear of him exploding, or myself not being able to control my emotions. I feel like it would be, I guess, somewhat of what it was when we only had one kid. [Unclear] manage everything that’s going on in your head, your concerns for your child, your work schedule, you’re just having a lot more, like, just being more peaceful, I guess. That’s the only thing, that’s the only word that keeps coming up. It’s just like an internal piece that I would just sort of a relief, that it’s not always like you’re in a fear of being in another conflict, and another conversation in which one of us is going to be right and the other one’s going to have to be wrong. And it’s more of a state of well being, right?

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. And what if you’re both right? What if both of your opinions are right? It’s just a disagreement, you’re not, we can both be right and we don’t have to change. We don’t have to convince the other person to go ahead and jump on our side, it’s more of let me go ahead and develop this understanding. Let me really, truly listen to what you’re saying, and what you’re trying to communicate to me. Okay, so what I’m hearing you say is, you really want us to focus on the budget. Okay, I can understand that. Hell, I even agree with it. And what are your reasons for, you know, can I ask, what are your reasons for focusing so much on the budget? Oh, because you have this in mind for us to save for, or you have this in mind. That makes sense. I’m on board with that. Now, I’d like to explain why it’s important for me to order from instacart. Here are the reasons. I’m in line with the budget so how do we come together? How do we formulate this plan that works for both of us? You know, I totally respect your thoughts about it. Here are mine.

And you get to stand firm, and I don’t mean stand firm in, well, I’m not gonna listen to the shit you’re saying. I don’t mean in that approach. I mean, this is mine, these are my thoughts, I get to have them. Because so many times I might have maybe changed it to go ahead and please and appease you, I don’t have to do that. Matter of fact, it’ll actually benefit the relationship if I don’t. And that’s why I say conflict in a marriage is healthy. It’s based off of you guys both being able to share your thoughts, your feelings and your stances, and being able to come together, not where you’re holding this resentment and you allow it to bloat you just let it blow over and then pretend as if it never happens, because, girl, it comes up, it comes, that’s what that rage is from, that’s when you said, you know, it pours out. Well, it pours out because your body never forgets, and you can only hold on to it for so long.

[SANJUANA]:
I feel like in an ideal situation, that would work, right? Having that conversation. And what we find is that if we leave and start having a conversation, either one of the kids need something or the phone rings, or, and we just kind of let it slide because, you know, that takes precedence over this, what him and I are are having, are trying to get through to each other. And it just kind of stays there until either that evening or the next day or the following day, when I do it again, or he does something again, you know, and it’s just a boils over at that point, because it just kind of never gets resolved, because we just kind of push it aside.

[VERONICA]:
Well, it’s, we don’t want to be uncomfortable. And there’s both, listen to what you said too, there’s this agreement. There’s a non verbal agreement that the minute the phone rings, that takes precedence over us. The minute a kid comes in, that takes precedence over us. So he and I both agreed that that’s just the way it goes, versus we have to change that. We got to change that. The minute we’re about to have a discussion, both phones are on mute, or on silent. You know, we let the kids know, hey, you know what, we need a good 20-30 minutes, I’m going to set a timer, or however, whatever works well for your family. But mom and dad aren’t to be interrupted, unless it’s an emergency.

You guys already set it in place where if our sons come in, we’re good. That’s it. That’s our break. And we’ll come back to it never, you know, phone rings, awesome. Well, that’s, that’s our get out of jail free card. You know, I mean, like, so there’s already this non verbal agreement. And that’s also what we need to change. We have to address that. Because you’re both avoiding and I’ve been guilty of this too. You’re both avoiding the feeling that you’re left with when you’re not seeing eye to eye. But if you could just get past that hump, listen to understand and truly, truly challenge what you’ve been taught about communication with your family. It leaves you in this vulnerable position and none of us like to be vulnerable. But the benefit of doing all of that is recognizing Holy moly. We’re on the same team.

My husband, he’s, you know, whenever I’m mad at him and want to spartan kick his ass sometimes, I have to realize like, okay, wait a minute, I get upset because maybe he’s not seeing something as important as I’m seeing it, or he disagrees with it. And it’s like, are you freaking kidding me? Okay, so I need to take emotions out. I recognize that they’re there, but literally take emotions out and get to the bottom of it. Is he really against me? Is he really trying to do something that’ll put me and the girls in danger? Or is this just a different idea that hasn’t really computed in my head yet and I need clarification? Because when I take that approach, I no longer want to spartan kick him and then I think he’s the sexiest man alive. Do you see what I mean? Like, it literally takes me getting out of my own head, and discontinue the mind reading. And I don’t want to say convince myself, but realize, yeah, like, we’re both on the same team.

[SANJUANA]:
It’s just the perspective, I think that…

[VERONICA]:
Yes, 100%.

[SANJUANA]:
[Unclear] perspective on things.

[VERONICA]:
Bingo. And his perspective is right for him. It doesn’t have to be right for me. I can understand it, though. And I can still [unclear].

[SANJUANA]:
Yeah. There’s been so many, so many instances where there’s been an issue of perspective. And when we actually do communicate that, I can totally see his point. And he’s like, why I didn’t know all that had happened before. [Unclear]. And then we’re both back on the same page. Again, like we need to set those boundaries with the kiddos and give ourselves that time to really talk through what each other’s perspective is [unclear].

[VERONICA]:
Bingo. So no more get out of jail cards. We’re going in, we’re confronting it, and we’re doing it together.

[SANJUANA]:
Yeah.

[VERONICA]:
Yay, listen, it’s still gonna feel a little rocky. And this is the biggest reason why, I don’t know if you know, but like, every Monday at eight o’clock, I’m going to be on the Facebook group. And I’ve already, you know, given women this workbook, and if you haven’t received it already, I want you to go on empoweredandunapologetic.com/episode47 and you’ll get your copy there. But this is the reason why I’m doing it with the ladies and why I wanted you on because we get so emotional. We do, and emotions are great. We have to control them, though. And I’m not saying that our arguments, conflict, is all of our fault. No, but we do have to acknowledge our part in it. And our part is avoiding it. Our part is letting it just kind of happen. And then three days from now we’re good. You know.

[SANJUANA]:
I feel another part that we sort of need to hit on is the fact that that emotion comes out of our eyes, and then we look like crazy people.

[VERONICA]:
Oh, yeah, all day.

[SANJUANA]:
They’re not even really there as to what is going on. What did I do to make her cry? Now I want to fix it. And when we’re just like, I need to get this out and vent it. But as I’m venting it, I can’t control my emotions, because I’m literally like crying through my words. And then I just, is it even computing to him that this is a problem? Or is he going to say, oh, it’s that time of the month again, it’s you know, it’s that kind of crazy hormonal thing that’s going on, as opposed to like, this is legitimate. She’s having a problem with it. And we need to fix it.

[VERONICA]:
Well, he’s so used to you having it. I got it. I got it. He doesn’t even know what the hell you got. But he knows that the house seems to run really well. I remember, I don’t want to take up too much of your time, either. I want to make sure we wrap up soon. But I remember with Willie, you know, when he started helping out and I started to let things go, it was like holy moly, this is a lot. The school wants what? You know, he’s like, I feel like I have to give blood because they’re asking for so many documents. He had no idea that it was so much work. And he had no idea because I did it all. He had no idea what it took to make a doctor’s appointment and the questions you have to ask the doctor, you know, had no clue. He thought you just showed up and the doctor already knew what was going on because you gave him symptoms. He had no clue because I never gave him the opportunity to go ahead and do it. He had no clue what our finances looked like. He had absolutely no clue what it looked like to buy a house or buy a car. You want to know why? Because I was a negotiator. I was the one who did everything with regards to contracts. No clue, all he had to do was sign.

So Adrian has no clue of the pressures that are on your shoulders. You want to know why? Because you don’t share them. You don’t share them. And I can understand your wanting to go ahead and allow him to work and do, you know, provide for the family. I get that. However, if you would allow him in, how beautiful the relationship would be, because he’d have an understanding and there’d be a level of awareness.

[SANJUANA]:
Awareness.

[VERONICA]:
Yes. That he has no clue right now, but we punish him for. The exact thing we want him to help us with is the one thing we deny him.

[SANJUANA]:
Yeah. I get it.

[VERONICA]:
So we got some homework to do, girl.

[SANJUANA]:
Oh, yeah. Quite a bit. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you so much, Veronica. Just opening my eyes. And it’s a paradigm shift. It really is because I’m set in my ways in my prime 39 years.

[VERONICA]:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m not going to say oh, yeah, it just happened and I have the perfect marriage. I’m sharing all of these things because I personally, I personally have to talk to myself. I have to talk myself through the steps. okay, what’s going on right now? Are you mind reading? You know, what are you thinking right now? What emotions are you experiencing right now? And is he 100% against you? And then I look at Willie instead of with daggers, with compassion. And it’s like, ah, and it’s just kind of like the blinders come off, and I’m able to see like, damn, he is a great dad, he is a great provider, he is a great husband. You know, I just need to kind of step back and see him for what he truly is, not what my head makes him out to be because I overwhelmed myself. You know, it’s not his fault that you decided to put yourself last. I say this over and over. It’s not his fault, you know, he decided to jump in the shower and your ass looks like the hired help. It’s not his fault. You did that. You know, you made an active choice. You could do the same thing. You could jump your ass in the shower, if you want to. You can take a timeout, you can go for a walk. But you deny yourself that over and over again because everybody else is more important than me.

[SANJUANA]:
I feel like I’ve gotten better at the whole getting myself ready first. It’s a process when you have three kids.

[VERONICA]:
Yes, it is.

[SANJUANA]:
They’re all wanting something, and I feel like I’ve made improvements in the last year to really make an effort of having my exercise first in the morning, and my showers.

[VERONICA]:
Yes, yes.

[SANJUANA]:
Then I go to breakfast, like it’s not like oh, the kids have to eat and now… I’ve made that effort and it took work. And I guess this is just another thing that I have to work on.

[VERONICA]:
This is another one. This is another one. And right now, by the way, just because I want to make sure that you getting all dressed up isn’t entirely ignored, right now, I definitely look like the hired help, not even brushed hair, and Sanjuana’s all makeup, looking ready to go.

[SANJUANA]:
No, I do this every morning. You see me every day.

[VERONICA]:
No, you do. You do.

[SANJUANA]:
I do it every morning. And even during the quarantine, like that’s exactly when I started doing it, back in March. Even if I’m not going anywhere, I’m going to be ready. And Adrian would ask me the first month or so like, where are you going in? I’m like, nowhere. I’m just ready. And I haven’t stopped wearing makeup and dressing in my clothes, my normal clothes every day. Now the question is like, are you exercising today? Because the day that I wear my yoga pants or I’m in workout clothes, they’re like, where are we going? Are you hiking today? You know, because I’m not ready. So now they don’t ask me where I’m going. Now, it’s like, okay, so this is normal mom, she’s dressed up, and she’s made up.

[VERONICA]:
Bingo. So you can take that same approach and apply it to arguments, conflicts, same thing. You just make this decision. Like, literally, I mean, it’s look, it’s working. You make an active decision, everybody else will follow, I promise you. Sanjuana, thank you so much for being on, this has been amazing.

[SANJUANA]:
Thank you. Thank you, Veronica, for having me.

[VERONICA]:
Absolutely. Oh, I can guarantee that many women have learned so much from this discussion. So I applaud you and I admire your vulnerability. Thank you.

[SANJUANA]:
Thank you. Have a good day.

[VERONICA]:
Empowered and Unapologetic is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a family of podcasts that changed the world. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom podcast, Beta Male Revolution, or Imperfect Thriving, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.

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