[WILLIE CISNEROS]: Yeah.
[VERONICA CISNEROS]: And be honest.
[WILLIE]: Yeah. I’d probably do this. I would say, do this together. Use two different color pens and just put down what each of your responses are and write them down. So that way one, it will make the other partner aware of what your partner’s insecurities are, because maybe you didn’t even know.
[VERONICA]: Have you ever thought, how did I manage to lose myself? Being a mom is so hard, especially when we’re feeling stressed and disconnected. We exhaust ourselves trying to create this perfect life for our family. You deserve to enjoy your marriage and your kids without the stress perfectionism brings. I am going to teach you how to identify who you are outside of all of the roles you play. Hi, I’m Veronica Cisneros. I’m a wife, mother of three and a licensed marriage and family therapist. I am on a mission to teach women just like you, how to become empowered and unapologetic. Welcome to our girl gang.
Hey ladies, welcome to Empowered and Unapologetic. I’m your host, Veronica Cisneros. So as you know, we’ve been going episode by episode these last five episodes. This is the fifth one, and we’ve been covering a free workbook that I created just for you. Right now, while we’re in this pandemic, a lot of marriages have been impacted and the percentage for divorce has increased substantially. So this is my free gift to you. You can go ahead and get this free gift at www.empoweredandunapologetic.com/episode 51. Ladies, I want you to go ahead and get this workbook, and I want you to do it either on your own or with your partner.
I’m going to tell you right now, these last episodes that I’ve recorded, what I’ve realized is a lot of these issues, my husband and I have gone over in depth privately. And with this episode, I’m going to go ahead and share with you like what this looks like, how these mistakes, how my mistakes and his mistakes have impacted our marriage and quite frankly, almost led to our demise. And so grab your husband. I want him to hear this episode because it is so good, so good that I’ve brought my husband on for the fifth and last time for this workbook. So, Hey babe, thank you so much for joining us today.
[WILLIE]: Thank you for having me. Yes, it’s important that this is one of those episodes that you and your partner are going to want to listen to. And you’re going to want to do this together. If anything, this is the part where both of you are going to want to take part in this activity.
[VERONICA]: These exercises are like next level, right?
[WILLIE]: Yes they are.
[VERONICA]: All right, so let’s get down to it.
[WILLIE]: Let’s do it.
[VERONICA]: So we’re going to be completely open and raw today about a very, very sensitive topic and it has to do with….
[WILLIE]: Sex.
[VERONICA]: So I want to go ahead and just get to it. Here’s why. For one, most of us women kind of shy away from this topic and we shy away for good reason. It’s sort of taboo and most of us don’t mind talking about it. And let’s just be honest, there’s insecurity surrounding sex. So the reason why I chose this topic as mistake number five is because not only is it really important, but it’s something, a common mistake most of us women make. And I was back and forth about having my husband on. I kind of wanted to do it individually or solo, but then at the same time, I want you to understand the impact of withholding sex and using sex as a weapon, weaponizing sex, as my husband termed it, what it does to your marriage and why it’s such a huge mistake that we have to end today. So babe,.
[WILLIE]: What’s up?
[VERONICA]: Mistake, number five, I won’t have sex with him until he apologizes. I use sex as a weapon sometimes. Let’s just go there. Like, what is this been like in our relationship?
[WILLIE]: I think for one, part of the problem is that people use sex and utilize sex as a means to fix their problem. And they think that it’s going to cover up the problem and that the problem is just going to go away because now you have this great sex when it’s just the band-aid.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. So, I mean, I’ve never used sex as a weapon.
[WILLIE]: Yeah, yeah.
[VERONICA]: So let’s go there.
[WILLIE]: So it’s, you’ve used sex as a weapon to get shit done to say, “No, this has to get done first, or I need you to help me with this first.” Things of that nature, but when it comes to problems, no, you, the thing that you’re great about is that you want to fix the issue for me. It’s I’m like, “Well, I’m tired of talking. That’s good. Now I’m just, damn you look good right now.” So looking, trying to look past it, wanting a quick remedy, thinking that that’s the remedy. And I think that’s part of the problem with couples is they try to use that as a way to fix their problem when all they’re doing is masking it.
[VERONICA]: So you’re saying guys do this too?
[WILLIE]: Oh yeah, definitely.
[VERONICA]: Guys we’ll use sex as a weapon.
[WILLIE]: Yes.
[VERONICA]: Okay. So it’s not just women.
[WILLIE]: No. And I don’t think it’s been used as a weapon. I think it has been used as a band-aid to try to think that that’s what’s going to fix the problem.
[VERONICA]: The reason why I’m saying sex is being used as a weapon is like, if you don’t apologize, well, then I have this control over you. I have this power over you and my body’s the weapon where you get to use it or you don’t.
[WILLIE]: Yeah. But I think men are more physical creatures in that aspect. I think guys yearn for more passion and things of that nature verse a woman is like it’s more of like the emotional connection. Some of the other parts of that connection are expected from a woman versus just that physical touch and physical connection. Yeah, that’s great and everything, but I think there’s a lot more that’s expected. So for a woman, I think it’s, it could be something that’s more easily dismissed to me like, “I can go without it. I’m fine.” And a guy is like, “Well, no I need this. Like you do not understand. I need this.”
[VERONICA]: Why. Well, you’ll get it. You’ll get it. So I I’ve been told, like working with men, not only told, but I’ve kind of seen it like sex is this very, very vulnerable state for men, a very vulnerable state. One thing I’ve noticed men don’t say it. Men don’t like outright say, “If my wife doesn’t have sex with me, then I feel like she’s not attracted to me.” Men don’t say that. However, they’ll go out and see it in different ways. Like, “What am I doing wrong? I’m trying to go ahead and clean. I’m trying to go out and do all of the I need to-do lists and she still does want to have sex with me. Like I don’t understand it.” Or, “She got me all hyped up and then fell asleep.” You know, how is it vulnerable for you guys?
[WILLIE]: It’s used in, okay this is how it’s weaponized. I’m glad you said that stuff. This is how it’s weaponized. It’s used as a bribing tool to get shit done.
[VERONICA]: Yeah.
[WILLIE]: It’s a method of bribery. So it’s like, you’re hanging that, you’re dangling the carrot in front of the rabbit who’s dying to get that carrot. And like, I’m bringing it in just close enough, it’s like the commercial. “Oh, you almost got it.” And that’s the woman, the dollar is the woman, who’s controlling it and, or controlling, the dollar being sex, the woman being the one with the fishing —
[VERONICA]: The fishing line?
[WILLIE]: That’s fishing throwing it out there and you know, where the damn idiot in the middle that’s trying to catch it and is not getting lucky.
[VERONICA]: So what does feel like when we do that to you guys?
[WILLIE]: It’s humiliating and it makes us less attracted to, or less likely to even pursue it some other time. Or we end up going where we’re like, “You know what, screw this. I’m going to do it either.” And then when the moment comes where the woman and the roles are reversed and she’s like trying to apologize and trying to make up and saying, “Okay, well then, okay, I’ll give you a little bit,” at that time, it’s already, you’re fed up. You know, that’s like, “Knock it away. I don’t want to do this anymore.” And then it becomes an even bigger issue because now it’s not just about those other things. And, you know, maybe your understanding your woman’s or your spouse’s love language, and you’re doing all those things and you’re like, “What more do I need to do to try to get your attention, to try to get some intimacy, to try to get, to catch a moment? I’m doing all these things and you’re adding more and more to your damn list that you want done. I’m doing it all, but you’re not paying up.” And, you know, and after a while it just becomes old and I think that’s why you get some situations where if needs aren’t met, that’s when you end up with issues amongst a couple and whether it’s pornography or themselves or others because they’re just, they’re unhappy with the way things are going.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. I’m glad you brought all of those things up because I don’t think we realize when we use sex as a weapon, or when we say, “Well, I’m not going to have sex with you until you apologize,” or, “I’m not going to have sex with you until you do this.” What we don’t realize is we’re also pushing you away and we’re now setting this as the pattern for the relationship. And don’t get me wrong, ladies, if you’re mad, obviously that’s not the time you’re going to want to have sex. Like, and that’s cool. Like, you get to say no. You get to go ahead and communicate that. Like, “Nope. You know I’m not feeling it or I’m not in the mood,” or whatever the hell it is. Like, but to use it as a weapon, that right there, like when you’re threatening it, that right there is what puts the relationship in a bit of a crisis. So, let’s talk about, like, let’s say, I don’t want to have sex because I’m upset with you. Like where are you at? Because I want to make sure that I hear men’s perspective.
[WILLIE]: Then I think you should say that.
[VERONICA]: Yeah.
[WILLIE]: “I don’t want to have sex because I’m upset with you. I don’t want to fix, I don’t want us to look past this and think that this is going to fix it, because it’s not. We need to fix this first. I love sex too and I want to have sex with you as well. However, …”
[VERONICA]: If I’m pissed off at you, I don’t know if I’m going to saying all that. I don’t know if I’m going to be like, “Listen, I love sex, but I just want you to apologize. [crosstalk]
[WILLIE]: You’re probably right, but I think that if that’s a problem where that’s often the solution and it’s something that’s always considered and that’s the, well, we do that all the time because that’s so, and meanwhile, there’s resentment. There’s this hangover of this problem. The very next day, you’re still waking up, you’re bitter, you’re pissed off. You don’t know why and then you start to think about it. And you’re like, “No, I’m still mad about what our issue was last night or yesterday, or a few hours ago.” We had amazing sex, but this problem is still here. It wasn’t fixed.” So I think when you start to realize that that is the issue and you realize that this is not the fix it for all, you have to go back to, okay, this is the basic thing.
[VERONICA]: Yeah.
[WILLIE]: Fix this first. Let’s deal with the problem, come to some type of solution, figure out what the root cause of it all was, be accountable for whoever caused it or did take responsibility and then move past it and move on. And then if that becomes a result of the make-up then great, then it’s even better.
[VERONICA]: Yeah, I agree with that. So I think another big thing that we need to go ahead and address is, not only are we attempting to punish you by withholding sex, but we’re also punishing ourselves. Well, we’re punishing ourselves because not only are we now doing this back and forth thing of using sex as a weapon, but when we do want to be intimate with you, we’ve already created this dysfunctional pattern of this is what it looks like. You have to do this in order for me to have sex with you. Or you have to go ahead and fake apologize in order for me to have sex with you. So when it really comes time for us to be intimate, it’s not there. It’s not there because it’s been set up to be this chore, right? What do you think women need to know the most about weaponizing sex?
[WILLIE]: Sex to me is a, it should be something that is shared amongst the two of you that it’s not just used as a way of one, it’s not a way of fixing things. It should be sought out and looked at as something that’s like, it’s special.
[VERONICA]: But what is one thing we don’t know? Like what is one thing that’s like, what is my man not telling me about the importance of sex? What are you not telling me about the importance of sex?
[WILLIE]: I don’t think there’s anything that’s not important. I think there’s, I mean, to me, it is important in a relationship. For me, it’s a big thing. I mean, you know we’ve already done this love language stuff before, and for me, it’s intimacy and touch and all that stuff. So to me, that’s a big part of my love language.
[VERONICA]: You’ve also said —-
[WILLIE]: But I’ll also say that the, I like the connection, but in addition to that connection, I also like the spontaneity. Like the out of this world catch me by surprise type moment. And those are important as well in a relationship where it’s not just like, “Okay, I’m coming home from work. I already know I’m going to be met with this, this and this, because it’s a repetitious cycle that goes on and it’s something that I’m used to seeing. So I already know I’m going to be met with, as soon as I get home, the house is going to be disarray. And this is not saying in our own life, but the house is going to be in disarray. I’m going to be met with, you know, I got to get this done. I got to get that done. I’ve just had a long day at work. And we’re probably not going to have sex. We may have dinner, and then after that, then it’s to bed in the day repeats. So there’s already the disappointment that maybe the husband or man feels like they’re walking into, when instead, I don’t know if you guys have ever seen the movie love Jones, like —
[VERONICA]: We were just talking about this right now, before we started recording
[WILLIE]: Meet your man at the door and hell don’t even say a word and just start going at it, you know, and just catch him by surprise every now and then. And like, he’s probably going to say, “What did I do to deserve this?” An appreciation for what their role is in the household for one would be great, because I think that’s a big part of it too, is that there’s just a lack of appreciation for your partner and then you’re using this thing that is so powerful to hang over their head and just say that, “We’re not going to do it until I’m ready to do it. And I think if you are —-
[VERONICA]: Do you think women have more control over when —
[WILLIE]: Yes.
[VERONICA]: Really? You think women have more control on sex?
[WILLIE]: Oh yes. Again withholding that shit.
[VERONICA]: So, women hold the power.
[WILLIE]: Yeah.
[VERONICA]: Really?
[WILLIE]: Yeah.
[VERONICA]: Babie, you think I hold the power. I mean, I do.
[WILLIE]: You hold the power in that being started to begin with. Like, if you’ve ever seen the movie, what was it? The one about something 40, something about 40 or here’s 40 or something like that and then she says at the beginning of the movie, he’s like, “Hey, you want to have sex?” She’s like, “”I’m constipated right now. Yeah, that’s like, those are those types of excuses and things that will turn a moment that could be great into like, all right, moment’s lost. That’s it.
[VERONICA]: Yeah.
[WILLIE]: Those are some of those things that are said to like quickly get out of the mood or for a woman to be able to escape out of something that she doesn’t want to do even when the man wants to do that. I mean, maybe he’s in the moment, but it’s some of those things that maybe are said like, “I’m constipated. I just started you know, or I hear the kids or yeah, referring to period. Or I hear the kids. I got to go check on them or I think I left,” you know, avoidance is what it all ultimately sums to.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. So you said two things that I think we need to touch on one, men need to feel appreciated too.
[WILLIE]: Yeah.
[VERONICA]: I don’t, I think we get so caught up in doing everything, you know, as we said in mistake, number one and the other mistakes that we do, that we put on ourselves, we get so caught up in everything we’re doing, we forget all the things you do. And so I appreciate that you just said that. Men also want to feel appreciated and you know, it doesn’t mean that we have to go out and bend over backwards all the time.
[WILLIE]: Oh, that would be great.
[VERONICA]: Well, yeah. The other thing you just said was about like that spontaneity. That’s spontaneity, and women holding the power. I don’t think we realize that. Maybe we do, that’s why we use it as a weapon, but I don’t really, couples don’t talk about this. Like we, a lot of couples, even the couples I work with, they don’t, I challenge them to have these conversations, but if I don’t challenge them, then they’re never having these discussions. And so, I would challenge you guys as an added bonus to this workbook, I would challenge you to go out and have a discussion with your husband on what this looks like altogether and how withholding sex, using sex as a weapon, how it’s impacted your marriage. I wanted to go ahead and touch on one more thing and I just forgot to say tip of my tongue. You mentioned guys will never say no, but you also mentioned earlier that if we continue to go ahead and use it as weapon and we’ll do this first and well, you haven’t done this first, then there is a point where they will. They will say no.
[WILLIE]: And to me, that’s like, I would say the point of no return, but that’s when you know shit is bad. In my opinion, like that should be a big indicator to you that your relationship is, especially if in the relationship one person is pursuing it more than the other constantly and all of a sudden they’re like, “No, I don’t want anything to do with you.” That should be like, “Holy crap. Like, I’ve taken this too far.”
[VERONICA]: So that can happen no matter how much the husband loves it?
[WILLIE]: Yeah. And it’s fighting themselves to not give in.
[VERONICA]: What do you mean? Tell me more. What do you mean fighting himself?
[WILLIE]: Fighting the urge because it’s great. But at the same time too, like your partner, you’re fed up and you’re just like, “I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do this. This it’s fake right now.”
[VERONICA]: This sex will be great, but then I have to know the what this —
[WILLIE]: The sex will be like, it’s a quickie at best.
[VERONICA]: So you guys already have that in your head?
[WILLIE]: And you’re checked out too.
[VERONICA]: I love that you said that. See that right there, that is what husbands don’t tell wives. They don’t tell wives. They don’t ever talk.
[WILLIE]: I’ll do it, but I’m going to do it all for me because I’m going to right now, I’m going to do this as I’m going to get my, end of this out and climax and I’m done. That’s it. So you wanted it, you got it. But it’s all about me right now. It’s not even about you. I’m not connecting with you. I’m not doing anything. It’s going to be in and out. That’s it. As long as I get mine.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. And so I’m glad you said that because a lot of men, they’ll go ahead and again, women too will go to the point of no return. I think women will go to the point of no return with household chores, with going ahead and doing everything for the family, everything for the kids, you know, all of the to-do tasks, right? And then we’ll complain. We’ll complain, we’ll complain over and over and over again. “I need your help. I need more support. I need you to start making decisions.” And then we’ll go to this place of, “I can’t do this anymore. I’m tired. I’ve already asked for your help 50,000 times, and you’re not helping me or you’re not doing it right.” We have fault in that. We have a whole bunch of faults in that because when we ask for help, we complain.
So, there’s faults in that but I just want to go ahead and do a little bit of a comparison. We go to the point of no return when we’re doing all of those things. It sounds like men go to the point of no return when sex is involved. So sex is really big. Sex is really, really big. I don’t, I mean, I know we know, but it’s like, “Oh, this is just something you want from me.” That’s not true though. It’s not something you want from me and that’s why I said sex is really a vulnerable, a sensitive issue for men, because I know for you, there’s been times when we didn’t have it for awhile and you had asked me, “Are you attracted to me?” And I was like, “What? Where the hell did this come from?” You were like, “Well, we haven’t had sex. And it’s like, “Wait a minute. So you determine my level of attraction for you based off of —
[WILLIE]: Out of being intimate.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. So like that moment when you and I had that discussion, gosh, that was a couple of years ago. I think you were still in the Marine Corps when we had that discussion. But that discussion was like, “Oh, I didn’t know that. I had never known that. You know that was a thing, but it sounds like that’s the reason why sex is so big because it’s your form of validation.
[WILLIE]: Yeah. Sounds like what I was going to say.
[VERONICA]: Can you speak more to that?
[WILLIE]: No, I was just going to say it validates our, it’s our gauge on whether or not you’re attracted to us, because then there’s that connection. And if it’s like in the moment, there’s a lack of connection, there’s a lack of any type of like involvement and you’re just like a dead fish, then that to us is an indication of like, “Okay, she, it’s got to be me. I got to be the reason why she’s not into this right now.” So then you start doubting yourself and you start having your own, I mean, there’s our own insecurities and things of that nature, not knowing what the hell the whole reason is that for the lack of connection, it could be worrying about financial things that are causing worries. It could be issues with the kids and problems that the kids are going through. It could be a number of things, but I would say for the guy, you look at like, she even, you know, it’s a moment that her and I are here and I’m just looking at here now.
[VERONICA]: Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.
[WILLIE]: So, if there’s no connection, there’s not like the same type of emotion the guy is showing, or the one partner is showing and the other is not then immediately it’s about, it becomes about, well this is, obviously it’s all about me.
[VERONICA]: Gotcha. I wanted to go in and struggle back real quick on the dead fish comment that you just made. I appreciate it because I think we, I think you guys need to hear it. I’m just going to just be point blank. I think you guys need to hear it. So what do you mean by that? Are you referring to like us just saying, “Okay, fine. We’ll have sex with you when we really don’t want to and we’re not active?”
[WILLIE]: No active role in it.
[VERONICA]: Gotcha.
[WILLIE]: Just laying there.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. So you’re not happy that you’re getting it?
[WILLIE]: I am in some regard happy that I’m getting it, but at the same time, too, I’m disappointed in the fact that like, this is the quality I’m getting.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. So it’s not as pleasing?
[WILLIE]: Yeah.
[VERONICA]: Gotcha.
[WILLIE]: I want to stay. Come get McDonald’s.
[VERONICA]: You just, I want to stick in and make McDonald’s?
[WILLIE]: Yeah, I want to stay, but I’m getting McDonald’s.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. That sucks. That really sucks.
[WILLIE]: Yeah, I knew you and the big Mac.
[VERONICA]: I can’t even supersize it.
[WILLIE]: Yeah. I know.
[VERONICA]: All right.
[WILLIE]: That’s the quality of what I’m getting right now.
[VERONICA]: Ah, so we’re referring to less than five in our workbook too. So we’re not necessarily following the script because I want to make sure that you guys are able to use this as a guide. So I want you guys to get a male’s perspective. Hell I want you guys to go ahead and open up conversations with us about your husband, but I’m going to go ahead and answer some of the questions that are in this workbook. And I’m a little nervous because like I said, I’m going to be open and raw. And my husband and I had a conversation about this before we started recording that, “Honey, don’t hold back. Even if it feels like you’re throwing me under the bus, like, let’s just go for it.” Because sex is big in a relationship and once you take the fun out of it, yeah. It’s very hard to come back from that. It is very, very hard to come back from that. So here we go. Mom, I hope you’re not listening, but let’s go.
[WILLIE]: All right. First question is, with regard to taking an action is when was the last time you had sex and the follow on question after that was like really good sex?
[VERONICA]: Two days ago. Was it two days ago or was it yesterday? That was good. All right. Calm down, mom. Earmuffs. So yeah, when Willie and I have sex, it is very important that I am in it. I am in it, obviously I’m in it to win it, however, when I say I’m in it, like I’m not holding back at all. Like I don’t give a shit if the lights are on, lights are off don’t care. I don’t care if he’s looking at me completely naked, obviously we’re having sex so that’s kind of a part of it ladies. So if you’re not getting naked, get naked. He is excited to see you. He’s excited that you picked him. He doesn’t give a shit if you gained five, 10, 15 pounds. He doesn’t care. He’s just happy you picked him, right?
[WILLIE]: Yeah. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Get comfortable with yourself. Enjoy your sensuality, no matter how, what size you are today and where you were. Like, it shouldn’t be about that. Just enjoy the moment. Be all in.
[VERONICA]: I got to ask this. I don’t want to, because I’m like nervous about who’s listening, and at the same time, I said, let’s just be raw and open. So, what do you love or what arouses you the most about me when we’re having sex?.
[WILLIE]: Your confidence. Your confidence, your sensuality.
[VERONICA]: You did not even hesitate.
[WILLIE]: No I’m not. Openness and willingness to just be spontaneous and just explore anything and everything, because I mean, that’s the way our relationship is in regards to this. Is that we’re willing to try new things. And to me, if you want longevity in your relationship and this to be a big part of it, which should be a big part of it, if you’ve only been doing it in one of two ways, her on top or you on top, you need to explore some more. Try some new things. It’ll rock your world, it will rock your relationship and just create some new and fun things about each other that you didn’t already know. And I think for us, that’s a big part of our relationship is, I mean, that’s something that we’ve done and it’s great.
[VERONICA]: Getting really excited.
[WILLIE]: All right. Number two. Identify why you use sex as a weapon to grab his attention, punish, or something else. How often do you threaten him? So there’s three parts of this.
[VERONICA]: So why do I use sex as a weapon? God, I hate to admit this, but I, every now and then will I use sex as a weapon and it’s to get what I want. It’s I know if I go ahead and say, Hey, if I dingle, you know, that whatever —
[WILLIE]: The carrot.
[VERONICA]: Yeah, dingle the carrot, dingle, if I dangle the carrot that you’ll go ahead and comply, like right away. It’s kind of like, you know, somebody who’s busy doing something and all of a sudden, when I say, “We have sex,” your ears perk up. It’s like, “Huh?”
[WILLIE]: That’s a squirrel moment right there. Definitely a squirrel moment every time.
[VERONICA]: And so it’s like I know I’m going to get what I want. And I hate to say that because right now, when I say that it’s like, “Damn, dude, why would I do that to you? Why would I manipulate you?” And that’s ultimately what I’m doing. Why would I manipulate you? So when you’re answering these questions, I want you to write that down. I want you to be able to identify like what you’re doing.
[WILLIE]: So that’s the second part of this question is, what is the reason why you’re doing it? Is it, you’re using it, and I just add to that list, but is that a tension? Is it for punishment or is it something else? And this something else, obviously the word that she just used right now, manipulation. So are you using it to manipulate your partner? If so, caution against it. And then the last thing, the last part of this question is how often do you threaten him?
[VERONICA]: You know what, I don’t think I threaten you that often. I think it’s maybe, maybe once a month. I don’t think I threaten you off too much with sex. You think I, no, we’re being honest here. Do you think I threaten you often with sex? Like, I’m thinking like, when’s the last time I threatened you? I haven’t threatened you.
[WILLIE]: No, you haven’t. No, it’s been a while.
[VERONICA]: Like, well I’m not going to have sex. You know what? No, I don’t. I can’t even say once a month. I never say, “Hey, well, you know what, I’m not going to have sex with you.” I mean, there’s times where I’m playing with you, but that’s because we’re about to have sex and I’ll say, “Nope, I’m going to do it, but I’m not going to enjoy it.” Or I’ll play around like that. But I don’t think there’s been a time where I’ve said, “Nope. I’m not going to have sex with you.”
[WILLIE]: Yeah. And there’s not times where you’re disconnected in the moment.
[VERONICA]: No I’m in. It’s happening. But you know what? I will say that there are times, there have been times where I have bribed you. I think that’s, for me, that would be a better question.
[WILLIE]: That would be the, how you’re using it as weapon.
[VERONICA]: Well, yeah. So I think there are times that I have bribed you for to go ahead and complete tasks, but I don’t think —
[WILLIE]: That’s absurd.
[VERONICA]: Okay, fine. Fine. So go ahead and tell them. Tell them
[WILLIE]: So part of the bribing, and I don’t know if we cut the last episode, but with her and I —
[VERONICA]: Episode 50.
[WILLIE]: She had said, “If you do this with me,” and mind you, it was late at night. I had to get up really early in the morning and she says, “I really need to do this. We really need to record together.” And we have to put it up, put it up, put it up. Finally, she was like, “Let’s just do it. The kids are in bed and I’m like, “I’m tired.” And she goes, I promise you, “We’ll have sex. I’ll rock your world after we’re done.” And then she goes, “I promise you we’ll have it.” And what happens? No, that shit didn’t happen. I was so tired afterwards. I was like —
[VERONICA]: So, you were a part of it?
[WILLIE]: I’m taking my ass to bed.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. But you were part of the reason —
[WILLIE]: But, what could have happened is it could have been, stop recording, done, close the screen, jump my bones right there. I didn’t even have a chance to walk away. That’s how it should have been.
[VERONICA]: That’s how you had it in your head.
[WILLIE]: That’s how I had it in my head. I was looking forward to it and then I was like, waited a few seconds, that shit didn’t happen. Anyhow. So yeah, that’s how it gets used. Bribery, right there. That’s how she uses it. Bribing my ass, [inaudible 00:34:07]. Do you feel sexy? And that’s a question for not just one partner. That’s for both of you. Do you feel sexy? Because I think there’s insecurities for both of us. I mean, hell, we’ve been in quarantine for quite some time and there’s been people that have been like, “I thought I could run this quarantine weight, you know, labeling it. So do you feel sexy? Stop focusing on body flaws and instead focus on what feels pleasurable. List your insecurities below.
[VERONICA]: So that’s a really big. Number three, when you guys are filling out this workbook, that is huge. Do you feel sexy? And be honest.
[WILLIE]: Yeah, probably do this, I would say do this together. Use two different color pens and just put down what each of your responses are and write them down. So that way one, it’ll make the other partner aware of what your partner’s insecurities are. So because maybe you didn’t even know, you’re totally off in left field and you thought it was this when it’s actually something else. And you know, so —
[VERONICA]: Ladies, yeah, you know, that’s a great idea. This is, I don’t know why I didn’t think about that to begin. With this workbook, you can totally do with your partner. You can do it on your own or you can do it with your partner, but it’s really a form of self discovery. So to answer your question, do you feel sexy? Yeah, I do. And a big part is the amount of work that I’ve done on my confidence and my sense of self-worth. And then in addition to that, I think because I am so confident. I don’t mean to sound cocky. I’m not going to apologize. I’m going to be unapologetic about how confident I am. I feel like, because I’m so confident, not only does that raise up your level of traction with me, because I feel confident even with the way I look right now. I haven’t brushed my hair, I just brushed my teeth.
My hair is all kinds of crazy, and I’m still in pajamas and I don’t have a bra. Like it’s just, and with slippers, like I don’t even think I have a [inaudible 00:36:10 on. I’m just going to like, “This is what it looks like right now. We just woke up.” But, and I was just like pulling eye markers from my eyes. But I feel sexy. I feel sexy no matter what. And I think that attracts you even more to me.
[WILLIE]: Yeah.
[VERONICA]: And so the other part of the question is stop focusing on body flaws. If you are in your head about your body flaws, guess what? Your husband knows it and he is put off by it. It’s not something pleasing and appeasing like at all.
[WILLIE]: Yeah, from a, you know, guys put aside your dad bond and beer belly or whatever it is that you’re insecure about. Or, “I haven’t been to the gym and, over a year now because of this —
[VERONICA]: Yes, if we’re having sex with you, we don’t care about that.
[WILLIE]: Like get out of your head. Be in the moment.
[VERONICA]: I agree. I agree.
[WILLIE]: Number four, how often would you like to have sex and have a discussion with your partner and see how it goes?
[VERONICA]: So for me, I think this is different from you. For me, I like when we have it, oh my God. It’s great. And it’s like, “Oh my God, why don’t we do this every day? Like we should do this every single day.”
[WILLIE]: I agree.
[VERONICA]: However, at the same time, like, it’s like, Holy moly. Like we have to, we would do this every day. And so there are times when, at the end of the night, it’s like, I’m like out cold. And so trying to go ahead and be realistic about it. And so for me, I would like to have it, and I think you’re going to like look at me with like crazy eyes right now, but I would like to have it four times a week. If we had it four times a week, that’d be awesome. Like, I’d be walking around like fricking [crosstalk]. What about you? How many times, how often would you like —
[WILLIE]: How often you eat?
[VERONICA]: Can you repeat that? I don’t think they heard that.
[WILLIE]: I said, how often do you eat?
[VERONICA]: Three times a day? Four times a day?
[WILLIE]: I want to smash it like when I wake up, before I go to bed, a nooner, hell yeah.
[VERONICA]: So, what I’m thinking about right now is my sound engineer, Mitch, listening to this thing, because he’s like totally cool guy listening to this and going. “Fuck, yeah. I’m with him. I’m with Willie.” Mitch, if you’re thinking this, you got to text me when you hear this. All right. And I want to know how often you’d like to with your partner. Ladies, you know what, screw it. I want you to go ahead and you don’t have to say anything, but just tag me in your stories with the number, like just Instagram, Facebook, tag me, Empowered and Unapologetic.
[WILLIE]: Mistake number five, question number four, and then throw your number on it.
[VERONICA]: Boom, yes. Tag me. I want to you to get to tell me on this. All right, next question.
[WILLIE]: This is the final question here. Explore each other’s bodies, set up a date and surprise him. Be creative and develop your plan below.
[VERONICA]: Yes. Have we explored each other’s bodies?
[WILLIE]: Oh yeah.
[VERONICA]: Often. Like, and I think that like, for me, when I get to explore your body, not only am I seeing you in this crazy vulnerable state, but it’s like the fact that you are allowing it. You know what I mean? Because, obviously we both have insecurities.
[WILLIE]: Yeah, that goes with putting your insecurities aside, being in the moment and also like finally once showing that you have a bit of confidence in your partner’s ability to explore your body and you being comfortable with yourself too. So that’s part of that, and that’s part of the previously, the questions that led up to this one here too, is understanding your own insecurities, being comfortable with those insecurities, and just enjoying that moment right there, where you’re able to explore, openly explore each other and surprise each other.
[VERONICA]: I agree. I agree, I think on both ends. Not only that, but it also develops this level of confidence in the relationship. So with the way I define confidence is trust. You know, it’s this great amount of trust. And so if I’m allowing you to explore my body for one, that requires a great amount of vulnerability. I think with women we’re so much more insecure than men. I might be a hundred percent wrong because you and I have talked about our insecurities and been open about it, but like, it’s like, “Holy shit, he’s going to see my belly fat. He’s going to see my scars. He’s going to see stretch marks. He’s going to see cellulite.” You know, because we have more cellulite than men. I hate that. I hate that, but that’s just the truth. I’m like thinking about all of those things and there’s times in the beginning, I remember in the relationship where it was like I had to go in and position myself a certain way, because I thought that was more attractive, not knowing like I was a robot during those times.
Like, “Okay, that’s stupid because you can’t hold that position for too long.” And what I realized is when I allow you to explore my body, there’s this great amount of trust and then I actually get to see firsthand how you care for it and how gentle you are. And it’s like, I’m kind of like want to cry right now because it’s like so true. Like I get to see it right in front of me versus all of the things that we drop in our heads, because we make you guys out to be monsters. We make you ought to be like, “Well, I’m just a piece of meat to him.” That’s not true. Does not true at all.
[WILLIE]: And if that’s the sex life, then obviously you need to communicate whether it’s in the moment before the moment or conversations that are just about sex, you need to have those conversations. Because if you don’t want to have blah, it’s all about one-sided sex, well then have that conversation. Have that uncomfortable conversation about it.
[VERONICA]: Yeah. And I want you guys, I’m going to challenge you here. You’re a part of that. If you feel like you’re a piece of meat in the relationship, don’t get me wrong. If there’s abuse, if there’s some form of rape, that’s not what I’m commenting on. I am not talking about that. What I am talking about is if you’ve set up the relationship where yeah, you’re consenting to sex and you’re just like, Hmm, you’re allowing your insecurities to get in the way you’re just laying there, you’re pretending like you got pleasure, I’m going to tell you right now, you just set your up for failure. You set your ass up for failure. It’s nobody else’s fault, but your own. However, if you have, and this is in a healthy relationship where it’s consensual, now go ahead and step outside of your comfort zone and do something different. Because like what you just said, babe, it enhances the relationship and it doesn’t set the relationship up for failure.
This episode is like, so freaking good. And it’s like brought up so many ideas because it’s like, Holy shit. Like ladies, I want you to go ahead and work on this workbook with your husband. Like if you’re just starting out with us, if you don’t even have the workbook, download it. www.empoweredandunapologetic.com/episode 51, to free copy for you. You can use this with your, you can go ahead and use this and work on it with your husband. You can go ahead and share it with a friend. Give them the link. Share it with a friend. This is so important. Babe, got to say, thank you so much for being on this episode.
[WILLIE]: Thank you for having me on. I enjoyed this a lot.
[VERONICA]: This was fun. This was so much fun. It was kind of like me and you having a conversation, but for like the world to hear.
[WILLIE]: Yeah.
[VERONICA]: All right, you guys, again, I want you guys to share with me your thoughts and your experiences. Love you. Bye.
What’s up, ladies. Just want to let you guys know that your ratings and reviews for this podcast are greatly appreciated. If you love this podcast, please go to iTunes right now and rate and review. Thank you guys.
Many women lose their own identity in the shadow of being a mom and a wife. We are a community of women who support each other. We leave perfectionism behind to become empowered and unapologetic. I know you’re ready for the next steps. If you want to become empowered and unapologetic, get my free course, Unapologetically Me over at empoweredandunapologetic.com/course. .
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