[VERONICA]: Empowered and Unapologetic is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a family of podcasts that changed the world. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom podcast, Beta Male Revolution, or Imperfect Thriving, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network. Have you ever thought, how did I manage to lose myself? Being a mom is so hard, especially when we’re feeling stressed and disconnected. We exhaust ourselves trying to create this perfect life for our family. You deserve to enjoy your marriage and your kids, without the stress perfectionism brings. I am going to teach you how to identify who you are, outside of all of the roles you play. Hi, I’m Veronica Cisneros. I’m a wife, mother of three, and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. I am on a mission to teach women, just like you, how to become empowered and unapologetic. Welcome to our girl gang. Hey ladies, I’m Veronica. I’m your host for Empowered and Unapologetic – welcome back. This is a three-part series. Our last episode with Dr. Lanae, we discussed how to have the talk with our children about sex. She also taught us how to shift our mindsets, so we feel confident with this discussion. In this episode, we’re going to take things a little further because, I thought, why not talk about sex and women? Most of us shy away from this topic and feel insecure when having this discussion with others. We usually make jokes and giggle whenever we share stories or use certain words. Most of the time we feel embarrassed. This is unfortunate because it’s something we all enjoy, so why is this so taboo? I wanted to welcome back Dr. Lanae St John because I feel like sex has been in some ways vilified. It’s a conversation women are not necessarily supposed to have, yet most of us are extremely curious. So how am I going to have this open conversation with the one who needs it the most – you guys? So, I thought, aha, why not do it in the podcast? So, ladies, I’m gonna ask all the questions for you and it’ll be our little secret. So welcome back, Dr. Lanae. [DR. LANAE]: I’m so happy to be back. This is gonna be fun. [VERONICA]: It’s gonna be fun, right? We’re gonna totally take it another level. So, ladies, if you missed it our last episode, we talked about really important things and we discovered so much about how our past really has kind of impacted, or disabled us, from being able to have conversations with our kids. And Dr. Lanae is going to take us one step further, so we’re just going to jump right in. I’m gonna ask all of the questions that I’m like, I’ve been back and forth about and it’s like, oh my god, I’m really gonna say this out loud. And so, there’s been a little bit of nerves coming out for me, so we’re just gonna tackle it. So, let me ask you the first question straight off the bat. Why are we so afraid to talk about sex? We all enjoy it. It’s something we all do. So, like, why are we so afraid? [DR. LANAE]: Yeah, it is a topic that, along with a lot of topics that relate to female sexuality even in particular, is it’s like there’s an international gag order on this topic. I mean because it’s not just women. It’s men as well. It’s been uncomfortable because there’s been a lot of religion tied to it, and non-science tied to it, and emotion, and all kinds of things, and to be honest I’ve been reflecting even since our last conversation, that when we allow ourselves to get wrapped up in the emotion of talking about sex, then we’re not able to really think about things rationally, logically, or even allow ourselves to tap into the intuition that we naturally have about this topic. There are severe, serious ramifications about not being able to talk about this stuff. If you’re not able to talk about the health of your genitals, that has ramifications. If you’re not able to talk about consent, and respect, and pleasure, that has ramifications. Those all have serious impact on us being able to move forward. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. And can you further explain like, what are the ramifications? What are the consequences of us not being able to take this on? [DR. LANAE]: Sure. So, I mean, you could take ramifications for each of those five building blocks in the book that I wrote, The five building blocks for communication, consent, respect, pleasure, and fantasy. And even if you look at one of each of those blocks – a failure to communicate, that has ramifications in not being able to get what you want, ask for what you want. To be able to share your emotion, whatever you desire, like, not being able to communicate has a lot of problems and it’s not just from a sexuality standpoint. I’m gonna go on a little tangent here and share a question that was asked to me on Quora – it was like, is there anything that you would be embarrassed about? If you had a son, what would you be embarrassed about if they were 15 years old and they couldn’t do something? And I thought about it for a while, and I was like, I would be embarrassed, I guess, if they couldn’t hold a conversation with an adult – like, a decent conversation with an adult – and even worse if they couldn’t talk to their peers. So, communication moves with us throughout our lives and hopefully, as children, we’ve been in encouraged to have our voice and to share our voice. I grew up in the age of children should be seen and not heard, and that still has ramifications in my professional life. Especially talking about sex, like there are times when I think, oh, certainly I shouldn’t be talking about this. And, you know, that whole being seen and not heard is like, yeah, it runs through a lot. So yeah, I mean, you could take any of the building blocks – consent, problems with consent or the absence of it, like, we see what that looks like. And you can do that with any of the blocks. [VERONICA]: You know, I appreciate you saying confidence and consent, because as women, there are plenty of times when we might be flirted with by someone and not necessarily know how to set a boundary. Or, you know, we might be… what is the word, we might be like enticed or… it’s not enticed. We might be persuaded to go ahead and have sex or make out when we necessarily don’t want to. Or the other side, we might want to go ahead and initiate sex with our partners; we might want to initiate that kiss or just that level of intimacy, but there’s just so much fear with saying no. And even a greater amount of fear with saying yes. And I’m saying this and I recognize what I’m bringing up, and in two episodes after this, we will be talking about rape and I have a therapist that we will be discussing that with, but I just want to make that clear, like, there’s no power in our voice unless we are educated, unless we’re able to go ahead and assert ourselves and set some healthy boundaries. We don’t have that power because we don’t have that confidence. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. Yeah. And the fear that you mentioned, the fear of saying no, is absolutely real for the reasons that you’ll get to in a couple episodes. But there’s also fear because we know of the incidences where people say no, and there’s violence against them. So, definitely that that aspect of the fear is real. The piece about wanting to say yes, and the fear of judgment around that – I think a big portion of that comes from the socialization that we need to be desirable to everyone. And that we feel like we’re going to be judged and I think probably one of the biggest aha moments I had in being an adult who went back to school to study sexuality, and also went through a divorce and was dating, I got to learn firsthand that I didn’t need to be appealing to everyone. It only mattered that I was appealing to the one that I was with. And there’s another peer of mine who talks a lot about dating your species. And what he suggests is that you try to scare people off. Instead of trying to attract everyone and be interesting to everyone and curtailing a lot of your own natural instincts and urges and interests to appeal to everybody, instead to try to repel people. And the people that stay with you are your people. Those are the people that you should stick with, as they’re gonna probably be with you through thick and thin. So, my own experience of that was 100%, that is exactly what I experienced because I dated someone who was very jealous, and I have one instance where somebody across a bar, waiting for a drink, smiled at me and I smiled back and my date left me at the bar. He got so upset because I smiled to somebody else. That was… it’s hugely problematic. So, yeah. So, there’s… where was I going with that? [VERONICA]: We were talking about that level of confidence and being able to go ahead and say yes to pleasure, say yes to the moment. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. And being partnered with somebody who would be angry that you smile at somebody, like, that’s… I mean, there’s some issues there. And they’re not yours. [VERONICA]: Yes, yes. And so, I think this is where confidence ties in – being able to go in and not personalize that moment. This is not mine; this is his. I’m not going to go and drink the poison. But if you can further discuss, okay, so like, even with my partner – and in our next episode, we’re going to be talking about couples – but like, I find that women are so afraid to initiate sex. I find that women are so afraid to have sex with the lights on and are afraid to explore their bodies and feel sexual and be in the moment and take advantage of it. They’re more of, okay, well, we only do these two steps and these two positions and this is where I stay, because if I even move a certain way then my husband’s gonna think I’ve been sleeping around, or if I even suggest… [DR. LANAE]: Yikes. Yikes. [VERONICA]: Right? Or if I even suggest, you know, why don’t we try this because I either seen it somewhere or I heard from my friend. I don’t want my husband to think, okay, now I’m addicted to porn. We tend to catastrophize things. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. I noticed something in the last year that pops up for me every so often. And I’ll admit that as I’ve hit middle age here, my body has changed quite a bit. And I started to notice that the physical ideal, or this this ideal that we have in American culture, that you need to look a certain way or have a certain body shape or body type, that body type is my 16 year old daughter. And that’s creepy, creepy AF, you know, to idolize that as something a middle-aged woman or even, you know, any woman who has become a mother – your body changes. Why do we hold this ideal or hold that particular shape and body type as ideal? I mean, it calls into question a whole lot of things. [VERONICA]: Of course. [DR. LANAE]: And I started to think more about… even this morning on my walk I was musing about, why don’t we… If we have to idolize a body, why don’t we idolize the bodies that have experience? The mothers, the mother body, or even the crone body? Because there’s wisdom, there’s experience, all of that is valuable and worthy of love and adoration. But for whatever reason we keep this ideal as a very virginal, young, skinny thing. It’s kind of weird if you think about it. The majority of people over 30 don’t really look like that anymore. [VERONICA]: No, no. It takes a lot of work. [DR. LANAE]: I mean, no shame to those people who have actually put in a lot of work and maintained. I have not. [VERONICA]: And I think that is no reason for us to keep ourselves from sharing this intimate moment with our partners, from being able to go ahead and find pleasure. And yet there’s this restriction. I’m not good enough. My body doesn’t look good enough. And I don’t want to be judged. [DR. LANAE]: Judgment. Yeah. [VERONICA]: Exactly. And I think, ladies, he’s with you. It’s happening. You guys are in the moment. I highly doubt he is going to say no to you finding pleasure in this moment. [DR. LANAE]: He’s just excited to get naked. [VERONICA]: Exactly. You picked him and it’s about to happen. He’s excited that it’s not his birthday and this is the only time it’s happening. He’s excited to be a part of it and be an active participant in it. [DR. LANAE]: I do have a suggestion for those who are wanting to have the lights off: put a blindfold on him. Put a blindfold on him, so then if your judgement is about him… if your perception is that he will judge you for your body, put a blindfold on him, and you do you and just dance like nobody’s watching, because nobody is able to see you. [VERONICA]: So how do we do that? How do we… because even right now, as you’re saying this, I can hear so many women going, oh my God, he’s gonna touch that big old flab that’s right there, or he’s gonna touch my thigh fat. I can hear women actually saying this right now, in my head. And so how do we get past that? How can we just stay there? Because this is a beautiful moment between you and your partner. How can we get out of our own heads? [DR. LANAE]: Okay, so this one, as I’m thinking about it, it’s probably not going to come out totally right, but I think, hopefully you can help me get this one. Yes, I hear you. Those are thoughts I’ve had about my own body as well. My daughters are teenagers and we’ll sit and watch a movie and we’ll cuddle or snuggle. And when my daughters were younger, they would kind of press on my belly and the fleshy areas of my body and say how much they loved the squish, right? And even if you think about squishy toys, like, there’s so fun to just squeeze, but there’s no hate or frustration or whatever toward it. It’s like, you just love squishing the thing. You can’t really do that with things that are hard, right? You don’t really squish… I don’t know. And the other thing too is I used to have students who would get really upset about having a FUPA, which is an acronym for fat upper pussy area. It’s the mons pubis. If you are a little fleshier there, it’s fleshy, but – I can’t remember who said this to me, it might have been my partner, but it’s better to have a little padding there instead of bone, right? Like, it can’t be fun to run up against bone all the time. So, it’s a bit of a mindset shift that, you know, thinking about these things as lush, and voluptuous, healthy, [unclear], I don’t know. Some of those words have a negative connotation, but I actually think that if we can embrace them more and think, you know, this is a person who has experience and life and… I don’t know, just words that pop into my head are kind of cheesy, it seems. [VERONICA]: I can understand what you’re saying. And I think with all bodies, right, with all bodies, you know, if we’re a little extra fluffy, or we’re not so fluffy and we’re tight and toned. Wherever you’re at, your body is your body and being able to go ahead and really challenge yourself like, this is mine. This is my body. I’ve worked hard for it in whatever ways, in whatever capacity. And it gets to receive pleasure. It gets to receive pleasure, whatever that looks like and… [DR. LANAE]: On your own terms. [VERONICA]: Bingo – on my own terms. And I think this is where we might even need to, dare I say, stand in front of the mirror, butt naked… [DR. LANAE]: Now that actually is an exercise that I do. [VERONICA]: Exactly. Well, I don’t do it with my clients. But I encourage my clients in my private practice and the clients that I coach, I encourage them to stand in front of the mirror, naked, lock the door because I know you don’t want anybody to walk in, but just stand there. And I want you to go ahead and comment on how beautiful your body is, and how many issues it’s taken you, how many fights, how many obstacles it’s helped you overcome. [DR. LANAE]: You know, I did that exercise with my kids when they were… it was right when I went back to study sexuality because that is an exercise that we did at school, where we… I think people in class did it with underwear, I don’t remember how many people it naked, but you were instructed to stand in front of the mirror and identify three parts of your body that you like. Don’t talk about the negative. They do this in the movie Mean Girls, where they stand in front of the mirror and, oh, I’ve got a weird hair line, and just picking up all these negative things about their body. Focus on the three things that you do like. And so, I recently wrote a blog post about this – I did this with my kids. And I had, like, a cheerleader voice, let’s do this thing. And they were really young. I want to say they were like, maybe three and five or four and six, they were really young. And so, it was bath night. We did this, stood in front of the mirror, named our three parts, I named mine and then I had my oldest do it, I think she said her hair, her eyes and her smile or something, like, those were her three. And then my other daughter said, my breasts, my butt, and my private parts. And I noticed that having them do that exercise, even when they were young, little, little, tiny cherub bodies, it has had a positive impact on them. All these years later, they can look in the mirror and find the things in them that are beautiful. And they can look in the mirror and, without sounding haughty or conceited, you know, I’ll catch my youngest who will just, you know, she’ll walk by a mirror and she’ll look, she’ll like, give yourself a smile and be like, I look good today. I could never do that. Even as an adult, like, I don’t think like that. And there’s nothing wrong with teaching our daughters, or sons, or non-binary children, to love themselves and to be accepting of how they look, because it’s gonna have an impact later when they’re adults interacting sexually with others. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. Ladies, I want you to do this exercise right now. If you’re home, go upstairs, go to your bathroom, do it right now. If you’re at the gym, I know they have mirrors in there. Maybe not naked, maybe in your sports bra and underwear. Wherever you feel comfortable. I want you to go ahead and do this exercise because I think it’s so important. And I’m going to tell you right now, I haven’t done it with my daughters. I haven’t. And we’ve talked about our bodies and we’ve had this discussion, but we’ve never done it in the mirror. And I kid you not, we’re going to do it because we’re going to go in the pool after this, so we are definitely going to do it in our bikinis. Yeah, I have a 17-, a 9-, and a 13-year-old so, yeah, we’re doing it. So now let’s go ahead and take it to this next step. How do we become more sexual, more sexually experienced, when we weren’t taught? And dare I say, how do we learn how to give blowjobs? Yes, I said it, girls, yes, I said it. How do we learn how to masturbate? Yes, I said that word too. How do we learn how to have sex and try new sexual positions when… My mom would kill me if I ever asked her, mom, can you teach me, you know, can you at least show me where I can, you know, how I can be aroused or how I can… oh my god, I’m not even gonna finish that sentence because my mom will kill me. My mom listens to this. So, let’s talk about that, like, where do we learn how to become more sexual and more sexually experienced? Because when I hear this, it’s like, oh, well, you know, the only people that are sexually experienced are people that have slept around, and if you’re not sexually experienced, well, it’s because you’ve been this innocent young lady, and that’s what we want. But when you’re with your husband, it’s like, okay, wait a minute. There has to be more to this. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. And I think it calls into question the word experience, right? Are we prioritizing experience as partnered experience, or are we prioritizing experience as me knowing what feels good in my body? Because if I know what feels good in my body, to me, that’s going to help me instruct my partner. [VERONICA]: Beautiful. Yes. [DR. LANAE]: And presuming that you’re in a partnership that sharing this kind of stuff feels safe – hopefully, you are. But then also, your partner then can share their experience of what works for them. Because I think so much of the experience conversation goes with assuming you know what to do at all times. And that’s not the case. Being able to find someone that you can try things with is important. So maybe neither one of you knows how to do a thing, and that’s totally fine. Because if you’re with somebody that you want to explore with, you know, sex itself is funny and you get a chance to do something fun and funny at the same time. And if you make a funny noise in the middle of it, you can laugh about it because it’s funny. It’s not like… you don’t have to be embarrassed about it because it just is, you know. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. [DR. LANAE]: But yeah. The experience piece is the word that I think we get tied up on. [VERONICA]: Okay, I love that you separated the two and you were able to talk about both of them, because they are extremely different. So, how do we? How do we go out and learn how to do these things? In your book you mentioned most – especially most girls – are looking at porn because their parents won’t talk to them. And I’m going to tell you right now, adult women do the same thing. Because it’s like, well, how am I going to learn? And I’ve even heard of women saying, well, I don’t want to practice it on my partner, so do I have to practice it on somebody else? Because I want to make sure that when I’m with my partner I know what I’m doing and I want to please him, and it’s like, okay, wait a minute, something got blurred here or something’s not connecting. So how do we find out how to do these things? What is a healthy way of us seeking this education? [DR. LANAE]: So yeah, these are definitely things that you can talk to a sex coach about, because there are… I mean, there’s plenty of porn out there, but not all of it’s good. So, the analogy is getting kind of worn now within the sex educator circles, but you don’t learn how to drive by watching Fast and the Furious movies. [VERONICA]: Thank you. Yeah. [DR. LANAE]: I mean, you can learn how to cook from watching the Food Network, but there’s something different when you actually have to apply it, right? So, the idea that they don’t want to practice on their partner would make me ask, why not? Is it because you don’t want to look like you don’t know what you’re doing? In a culture that idolizes virginity, innocence? Okay. But who is it for? Is it for you to feel like you know what you’re doing? Or is it for your partner’s enhanced pleasure, and wouldn’t your partner’s enhanced pleasure be… wouldn’t achieving that be done better by asking and practicing on them, like, how does this feel? Do you like this? Like, practicing all kinds of things. You can approach it as if you were a scientist exploring a new part of the body, like, okay, how does tickling underneath the balls, near the perineum, like, how does this feel? The base of the shaft, where the shaft meets the scrotum, what does this feel like to you? There’s so many things that you can explore on a penis with your hands, or with your mouth, and just being able to do that with your partner and do it playfully. Not with the goal of orgasm being the goal. Yeah. And there’s nothing wrong with having him do some of the work. To join you in moving his hand while you do things with your hands and your mouth. So, there’s all kinds of ways that you can do that. It doesn’t have to be the performative act that we see in porn. [VERONICA]: Bingo, you just hit it, you just nailed it right there. I think most women are under the impression that they have to be this porn star in order to satisfy their partners, because porn might be their competition, or other women’s bodies might be their competition, when in reality, ladies, that’s all in your heads. You know, those are insecurities and if you’re able to challenge those insecurities, then you’re able to go out and find pleasure. And in addition to that, you’re able to build this stronger connection with your partner and with yourself, which is the ultimate goal. Because then you have this increased level of confidence and self-worth. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. And if you can connect your experience of pleasing your partner and seeing them get pleasure from the experience that you are sharing with them, that also gives confidence. It’s like a positive feedback loop. [VERONICA]: Exactly, exactly. And it sounds like the best educator is… the best place you’re going to find this level of education is through practice. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. There’s no shame in practicing on your partner. Absolutely not. You can make it a game. One of the freebies I currently have on my website, at the very bottom of the homepage, is Touch Lab. [VERONICA]: Oh, girl, we need that one. Yes. [DR. LANAE]: I mean, it’s a game; you can make sex into a bit of a playful thing. There is nothing wrong with it being a playful thing. Cos you’re gonna learn when you play. What do kids do when they play, they learn, right? That kind of gets back to the fantasy block. So, if you’re incorporating play, you learn at the same time. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. Hey, ladies. Here’s the deal: I’ve opened up a private VIP membership group. This community is hosted in a private Facebook group where I will do one hour weekly coaching calls, I’ll help you create a goal action plan, you’ll be provided with worksheets and assigned homework to hold you accountable. In addition, you will have access to me. Have a problem? Post it and get feedback. It’s a healthy mix of coaching, accountability, and support. The VIP ladies have told me it feels like we’re all sisters. I can really be myself here. Get access to our VIP membership group only when you join. Go to empoweredandunapologetic.com/VIP-membership. Start pursuing the change you so badly desire. You deserve it. So, let me ask another question. Why do you think women fake orgasms? [DR. LANAE]: Well, there’s a whole lot of reasons why. It could be anything from wanting it to be over with quickly, or they want their partner to feel like they’re doing something for them. Yeah. I mean, there’s just a whole lot of reasons. It’s not helping your partner learn how you feel pleasure if you fake it. [VERONICA]: Bingo. I was just gonna ask you, what are the consequences? Yeah. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah, they don’t learn. [VERONICA]: No. So unless you’re ready to sign up for fake orgasms for the rest of your life, girl…. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah, it doesn’t help them. I’m trying to think of an easy analogy on this. It’s not like a parent encouraging a child – that’s kind of gross. But, I mean, you certainly want to reinforce good behavior. So, don’t fake it when it’s not there because you’re not teaching them the right things. [VERONICA]: Hence the whole reason why you don’t want to do it. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. And most people don’t realize that an orgasm for a person who has a vulva, it’s not… they don’t always achieve an orgasm through penile penetration, or through penetration period. There was a statistic that got passed around quite a bit that it was, you know, like 70% of women don’t experience orgasm through penetration. I think the sample study was super small though, so I don’t know if we can really make that a blanket statement for everyone, but I know that statistic does fly around a lot. It certainly is a lot of women though. [VERONICA]: Yeah, absolutely. [DR. LANAE]: So, if you need to apply a vibrator to your clitoris while you have intercourse, totally fine. If you need to rub your clitoris while your partner penetrates you, that is also totally fine. You do whatever you need to do to feel pleasure. And your partner can learn at the same time what gives you pleasure while they’re penetrating you. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. Absolutely. And this goes back to exploring our bodies. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. Knowing what feels good. [VERONICA]: Yes. And I get it – society, our parents, there are so many people that have said, this is not okay. We don’t talk about this. We don’t do this. And if you do it, I don’t want to hear it. And I think in so many ways we have imprisoned ourselves from being able to go ahead and figure out what our pleasure spots are, or that level of confidence. In so many ways we’ve crippled ourselves from being able to go out and be intimate and explore all of these things because of those thoughts or because of what we’ve been told. What is the most common mistake women make, besides faking orgasms? [DR. LANAE]: Oh, let’s see. The biggest mistake women make that I have been hearing recently is assuming that if your partner doesn’t want to have sex, they’re getting it somewhere else. [VERONICA]: Oh, yes, girl. Yes. Yes. [DR. LANAE]: I have heard this more than a few times in the past week. The sex drive of all of us – we can’t just limit it to one gender – our sex drive is impacted by a lot of different things. They can be external. They can be internal. Regardless of whether they’re external or internal, they affect our interest in sex. So, if… and this is a perfect example right now with Coronavirus and COVID – if you’re feeling a lot of stress, you probably aren’t really into having sex right now. And granted, there are some folks who are using this opportunity to connect more with their partner, but I’m seeing numbers with the Kinsey Institute and some of the studies that are happening informally out there. More often than not, though, people are feeling the stress and they’re needing less sexual connection and just more just connection. Whether that’s, you know, cuddling with their partner, not having sex, like, the idea that we should always want or be ready for sex is problematic for a lot of reasons. And a lot of them affect the partner who typically does want sex and now all of a sudden they don’t. So, you know, if your partner currently is not really in the mood, just get curious and ask them if they’re okay. Maybe they have some stuff that’s going on with work or stuff that’s going on with, you know, just their worries about the state of the world that has nothing to do with their desire for you, but everything to do with the fear about what’s happening, that can impact whether they want to have sex or not. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. And I think when that takes place, when women are onto the assumption that their partners are seeking it somewhere else, that hits on our insecurities, that hits on our level of confidence. And even if we do want to engage in sex or intimacy, we shy away from it because all of those insecurities take over. I’m not enough. He’s getting it from somewhere else. And so, I’m just going to sit here until I see that I’m desired, I see that he yearns for me. And until I get those clues, I’m just gonna sit back here in this corner and just chill. And it’s a distorted thought. It’s a completely distorted thought. You know, it’s not one that’s true. And so, I think this is why you’re hitting so hard with developing that level of confidence in we to go and have these discussions, to share these moments, and to experience this level of intimacy. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. Yeah. And I’m not sure where that idea began, but I’ve heard it before, you know, this idea that if he doesn’t want it from me, he’s getting it someplace else. [VERONICA]: Oh girl, that comes from childhood. I’ve heard so many people say it, you know. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah, but where did that originate? I mean, that’s a bigger discussion for later. [VERONICA]: No, it’s true. I mean, we go into this thing of, you know… I know I’ve been told this, if you’re not giving it to your man then he’s gonna get it somewhere else, and it’s like, oh my god, I don’t want that pressure. I don’t want that pressure of I have to have sex with my husband because I’m in fear of him getting it from somewhere else because, yeah, then that’s where fake orgasms come, because I’m going to build him up, but I’m going to be resentful the entire time. Like, oh, my goodness, [unclear]. [DR. LANAE]: [Unclear] bedfellow. [VERONICA]: Hell no. I’d rather be able to go ahead and… with my husband – we’re going to get more into it, but in our next episode with my husband and being able to have that level of comfort, being able to be vulnerable, I can’t ask him for permission. I’ve noticed in the years, we’ve been married for 20 years, and in the years, I’ve noticed that I have had to give myself permission to be open and honest. And if I want something, ask for it, take it, whatever, you know, and obviously with consent, but take it in that I’m going to go ahead and take this opportunity to go ahead and seize the moment. I’m going to go ahead and take this opportunity to go ahead and lean in to my fears and challenge them and anytime that I have, it’s been with amazing results, amazing results in that we were able to share this connection, we were able to share this moment, we were able to strengthen our marriage. And there’s been nothing but positive things from it. And don’t get me wrong, there have been times that he has said, of course you wait, of course you wait till the last minute for you to initiate it, I’m dead tired, or whatever and it’s like, okay, those feelings of rejection come up. And yeah, he’s not rejecting me. His ass has been falling asleep for the last hour, and I was like, ah, you look kinda cute. [DR. LANAE]: Something you said reminded me of a conversation that I had with a single girlfriend recently, a friend of mine who is single. She has been communicating with a guy that she’s been talking to for years and now they’re finally both single at the same time. And so, during Coronavirus, they’ve started their conversations again and he tried to suggest something to her that was the complete opposite of my recommendation to her. So they had met for… they ran into each other somewhere in public and they could tell that there was like a little bit of electricity in the air, and I have to say, like, I think there might be a bit of a baby boom after quarantine is lifted. Because, you know, she said that she never felt this spark with this person before. But seeing him out and like, not, you know, she lives by herself with her kid and she was just like, oh my god, you could feel it in the air. And they were texting, and he said, let’s make a pact not to touch ourselves, or not to orgasm until we actually see each other. And I was like, girl, no. No. Orgasm. Now. All you want. I want you to learn that you, for sure, are the… you can create your own pleasure. You don’t need to rely on another person. I mean, it felt like a kind of form of grooming, for him to say like, don’t do it until we meet. [VERONICA]: Because I’m the only one. [DR. LANAE]: You go ahead. I’m gonna go masturbate all I want because, you know, I don’t want to need to wait for one person to provide it for me or make me think, you know, oxytocin is a hell of a drug. And it’s gonna make you think that this is your one and only. Anyway, so, you can cut that if you want – sidebar. [VERONICA]: So, ladies, definitely do you. Definitely do you. That’s what we’re going to take from this, from all of this. [DR. LANAE]: Pun intended. [VERONICA]: So, ladies, I’m going to tell you right now, if you loved this episode, then guess what? I’m going to be speaking with Dr. Lanae and my husband; my husband’s gonna be joining us, and I’m gonna tell you right now, he’s like, really? Okay, well, let’s go. At first, he was like, okay, wait a minute, what am I gonna ask? And it’s like, there’s no limits. Like, let’s just go there. So, we’re gonna do this because, again, couples and sex. We’re, you know, this is… I’m hearing it so much. I’m afraid, I’m afraid. I don’t know what my husband wants. I don’t know how to have this conversation with him. And I think having a male on this episode, I think, will not only help you, but guess what? Your husband gets to listen as well. So, it’s just this added bonus. So, we’re discussing – this is a three-part series – we’re discussing all the things. And Dr. Lanae. I just have to say, I’m so thankful that you’re willing to go ahead and take us all the way through and teach us all the things that we so desperately are afraid to ask and secretly, totally want to know. [DR. LANAE]: Yeah. Well, I’m your girl. I love talking about this topic. And it is who we are. It’s a natural part of who we are. It’s just figuring out how to get past the fear and all those other emotions that come up about it. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, you guys, get ready because we’re about to take it to another level. All right, you guys. Until then, I’ll see you soon. Bye. What’s up, ladies? Just want to let you guys know that your ratings and reviews for this podcast are greatly appreciated. If you love this podcast, please go to iTunes right now and rate and review. Thank you, guys. Many women lose their own identity in the shadow of being a mom and a wife. We are a community of women who support each other. We leave perfectionism behind to become empowered and unapologetic. I know you’re ready for the next steps. If you want to become empowered and unapologetic, get my free course, “Unapologetically Me,” over at empoweredandunapologetic.com/course. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. 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